During tonight’s governance change ordinance work session, interim commissioner Cam Parry admitted that the proposed ordinance to change the county governance was based upon philosophical, dare I say ideological, reasons rather than quantitative reasoning. “The county isn’t broken,” said Parry. “This model is the best way to get us through touch economic times”
Parry went on to say that he could not include a cost benefit analysis along with a fiscal impact analysis associated with adding two commissioners and staff and offices because it would just be “philosophical”. The commissioners would not agree to strike a line from one section of the proposed ordinance that enables the administrator to poll the commissioners in advance on topics like mineral leases or land use or timber contracts outside of public view. “In the exercise of their authority as members of the governing body of the County, Board members may individually, or as a group in a public meeting, discuss fully and freely with the County Administrator any matter pertaining to County affairs or the interests of the County.”
Finally, the truth is out… this isn’t based upon fact or empirical data, it is simply an ideological decision. So what is the rush?
UPDATEThe video of Wednesday’s meeting is now available at Coos Media Center. The “philosophical discussions begins at 57:30.
It’s clear, the business community finds it difficult, and expensive, to lobby three Commissioners. So, they propose a single Administrator. This is to “save money” and make County operations more efficient.
Well, we can sure see where the save money part comes in. A single Administrator cuts the “lobbying” cost by two thirds.
As far as more efficient goes, Coos county, for sale at an even lower cost.
I repeat, a County Administrator is need to oversee the landfill? Sounds like a rather small job description.
Exactly Ron! An Adminstator makes the tough calls that an elected Commissioner is afraid to make – especially one that wants to get re-elected. It took twenty years for that facility to decline and no less than seven (7) elected Commissioners let it happen on their watch. Why? Because not a single one of them wanted to stand up and tell the voters that someone forgot to set aside $100,000-plus dollars each and every year to keep it maintained. If one of them had stood up and said that publicly, the regulars at the BOC meetings would have started a recall petition. (By the way – kudos to the maintenance crews out there who kept the place running in spite of those Commissioners.) That’s the Administrator’s job: identify the problems, prioritize them, identify a couple of possible solutions, then take those options to the Commissioners for resolution. While it is in the best interest of an elected official to pretend bad news doesn’t exist, it is the job of the Administrator to keep both Commissioners and the public informed about any and all issues – good and bad.
So the County Administrator needed to oversee the Landfill. Now I see.
If half a million is the number (and it’s not clear how your reached that number), that represents 2% of the Solid Waste loss. That sounds like a bargain to me.
Sorry themguys miss read thanks
Rickey, my comments weren’t directed to you, they were directed to al and his crew. I do read, thank you very much, but I wanted their answer.
Themguys if you have listen or read I have shown what an administrator would cost and the numbers are about $500000 so I would ask pay attention
” You keep stating there’s no proof that an administrator will save money but you fail to provide proof that an Administrator wouldn’t. ”
He doesn’t have to numb nuts.
Well I see Al finally admitted that there are no fact or research on their part on how this will save coos county government money or make it run better than the current system now one more question Al would you change how you run your business without doing all your research? I know that a smart business plan always has facts included . If Harley Davidson told you to buy more bike and they would give you a good deal but would not tell what the deal was would you do it on trust
I’m an Oregonian. Born and raised here. Except for my time in the military, I’ve lived my entire life in Oregon. I’ve lived in every part of Oregon. It does not matter one little bit to me what Arkansas, Kentucky or Tennessee do or don’t do. To steal a line from a book, “The day they introduce the entrenching tool in Arkansas it will spark an industrial revolution.” Keep asking yourself why is Parry pushing for this so hard? Altruism? Hardly. He hasn’t been in Oregon long enough to be able to tell me what’s best for me as an Oregonian. A job prospect? How obvious can it be?
Al why will you not produce a sound business plan. It sounds to me you do not understand our way of government .if your idea is so financially fit why not answer my question Al the college offers a coarse on writing business plans
“Although a majority of counties still operate under the commission form, more than 40 percent have shifted to either the county administrator or the elected executive type. State policy-makers have contributed to this trend, as Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee now mandate that counties in those states be headed by an elected executive.” – National Association of Counties
What are the chances that all these counties and states made the same decision as a result of “ideology”?
It is fascinating how proponents of hiring an administrator appear to think or operate. They are evidently unable to offer up any quantitative breakdown or clearly defined explanation of how an administrator would benefit the county or offer any explanation of how other counties with administrators are in worse shape. So they can’t because no such evidence exists so they don’t bother, Instead they adhere to ideology probably handed down from some east coast conservative think tank through an elaborate dogma deployment system and these guys just believe it. They admit it is purely philosophical and without empirical support but nonetheless they believe it wholeheartedly. This is faith based governance/management with disciples who believe an administrator is the next messiah.
And Rick – it was never my job to create a businessplan. My job was to find out if there were ways to create better efficiencies within County Governance. As a result of that exercise the IT department has gotten some attention. Since we warned of looming and significant Solid Waste maintenance costs, the incinerators have been permanently shutdown. Unfortunately, numerous issues identified have yet to be addressed or resolved. The reasons they have not been addressed or resolved brings us back to the Administrator position.
Nonetheless, if you come up with a better plan for addressing those problems, I’ll be happy to support you and your plan. You’re quite capable of doing the same, you know: creating an alternative businessplan. You keep stating there’s no proof that an administrator will save money but you fail to provide proof that an Administrator wouldn’t. This much is certain: the current structure cost the taxpayers $25m+ dollars AT A MINIMUM, so defend it if you will, but from a business perspective, defending the current structure or claiming that all is well within the County is downright silly.
Oh mygawd.
I just pulled a piece of toilet paper from my left shoe.
Does that mean I’ve lost weight?
Only in al’s world.
Unbelievable.
The County has already achieved cost-neutral by shutting down the incinerators.
COST NEUTRAL = FREE WINDOWS ?
Come on al HOW ABOUT SOME FACTS.
” And you’re trying to make a point about the cost of an Administrator -which is going to be cost neutral?”
He just can’t stop himself, he continues, even when the jig is up.
Show us facts to back up this last statement al.
You won’t/can’t/ because you have none.
And jonny barton sends you out to fight his BS war on representative government.. Good boy al. Do you kiss his ring after you’ve done his dirty work? Probably.
Al why do you not want to show the bussiness plan is it because your group has never made one. Why do you want to change the subject. Here’s one for you why not spend the money it would cost for your aministrator for more road deputies .Al please produce the verifiable data rather than change the subject
Rick – we just lost a multi-million dollar Solid Waste facility that would cost the taxpayers between $25 and $30 million to replace, plus $100k per year for maintenance to keep it in tip-top shape for twenty years. And you’re trying to make a point about the cost of an Administrator -which is going to be cost neutral? Why aren’t you making a fuss about the Jail staffing, or number of computers and cars, or Deputy staffing. Maybe we have too many people in the Parks Dept – or not enough. All this fuss over one position is becoming comical. Move on. Change is good and inevitable.
Romney Camp: We’re Taking ‘High Ground’.
” As a candidate for Commissioner you need to debate on a higher level.”
Versus the rabble that pays their own bills al?
Seems Romney isn’t the only dick head trying to “raise” the discussion around here. My opinion, of course.
al’s lips drip with contempt for those not sitting at his table, for those asking him for some facts to go with his BS, he ain’t got any. Just a whole lot of nonsense he’s trying to pass on to the rest of us.
As to al’s haughty correction of another posters spelling???
Didn’t make you any bigger al.
Al, you may half been appointed by them there political appointees to get an adminsitrator hired but nobody elected or appointed youse to be the spelling and grammar polic. Embareassing! That letter sent out by you co chairman Barten, and the accidental honesty of Perry has caused you and Messerle to loose credibility. You can recapture your momentum by answering Mr. Wileys questions.
Why is Parry wrong in his statements?
What will an adminsitrator cost us?
What are the qualifications for an administrator?
What is cost for administrator offices?
Will your dreaming team work for no pay or benefits?
How many staff members will be needed to support administrao?.
How much will they cost us?
And how will you guarante us a better, more productive, cost efishshunt, county by hiring an admistrator.
Mary I know Al can’t answer my questions they are to complex
Anything Al produces is irrelevant because Parry made it clear there will be no quantitative benefits assessment offered to the voters because the entire scheme is purely philosophical. We are expected to take it on faith that their ideology will somehow benefit the future of the county while we ignore past failures.
Al show the people of coos county a detailed business plan of how the county will save money, using verifiable facts. Is it because you know it will not save the county a dime in fact it will cost considerly more. So don’t change the subject give the people true facts
Ricky – braindead comments about Apple aside, do you have any observations about the financial data I provided you about Curry County? Or would you like ignore that data and move on to Lane instead?
And Lane county is in “worse” shape than Coos, not “worst”.
Yeah, kind of like Barton accidentally told the truth when he said Dale Sause wanted the CCAP to direct $5K to Bruce Starr for helping putting Capt Yates out of business… then had to walk it back because they only tell the truth by accident or with peer approval
Every once in awhile Parry opens his mouth and a kernel of truth comes out in the sales pitch. If they wanted the change for philosophical reasons why not just say that last year?
Ricky, please quit asking al such hard questions.
Unless you want him to leave again.
Mr. Wiley, you speak in jest, I hope. Mr. Al departed Apple long before Apple needed saving and that saving was by Steve Jobs. I do not recall Al ever stating that he saved Apple; but, he sure did not correct the politician who did make that statement.
Al why don’t you want the people to vote on your proposal?
Al you said over 9 months ago that curry would be bankrupt in a mater of monthes. You have told us it will save money if we hire an administrator but you have never shown us hard financial facts . If the CEO system is so great why are so many cities counties schools in such bad shape. Lane county is in worst shape then coos. And Al if you saved Apple why are you not the CEO of Apple. Al you would run your business without a sound business plan that hard verifiable facts would you oh that’s right if some one told trust them it will work even when there proof it won’t. So we ask one last time where is the hard facts I don’t want your opinion Al and the citizens of Coos county want the facts not fabrications. Give us the real cost of your plan. You and your pals were ambushed by the girls from fairview evens entry they out smarted you they want a accountable government
Ricky – did you really just say that Curry County is “open for business?” (Is it happy hour in Salt Lake??) The Curry County Budget Committee approved a budget that robs $350,000 from the vehicle replacement fund, $700,000 from the County Road fund and $450,000 from the county’s working capital to keep the county operational until July 1, 2013. (That was after they rejected a last minute move to NOT use those funds, which would have left the county officially broke this past March.) This budget uses up the county’s reserve fund and the last of the timber replacement funds approved by Congress last year. The county’s general fund budget for the current year is $5.1 million. Income projected from property taxes and fees for next year is $2.1 million. This should be enough math for anyone to comprehend that Curry has not only sunk like a stone, but they’re still sinking. Their jail doesn’t meet federal standards as it was grandfathered. If they close it – as John Bishop assumes they’ll do next year – it will cost millions to build a new one. What are the chances of that happening in the next couple of months or years? They were hoping to ship their inmates to Josephine County, but since Josephine has unloaded dozens of their own inmates due to budget cuts that’s no longer an option. I know we’re arguing semantics here, but I doubt that anyone in Curry County would agree that their county is on solid financial ground. And please – leave the insults to the likes of Themguys and a few of the other regulars here. As a candidate for Commissioner you need to debate on a higher level.
And to Themguys – I left the room when the public comment which followed my presentation consisted of Bob Arnold making ridiculously absurd and fabricated statements about the valuation of my business, followed by Ronnie Herne chastising me for calling the IT department “girls” instead of “women”. While that issue may be of utmost importance in Ronnie’s world, I deemed both Bob and Ronnie’s comments to be trivial, imbecilic, and a collosal waste of my time, considering that public comment was supposed to address the Structure presentation. The BOC may have to sit there and listen to that dribble – I do not.
Well Al are you Fred’s spokes person? Was I asking you Fred is a big boy . He knows what he has done wrong . It’s time for Fred to come forward and tell the truth. Al you just have a opinion . You said curry county was going to be broke in months they are at bare bones levels but they are still open for business. At no time have you present any financial facts to support your pipe dream.
I borrowed this sentence from Al; ” That’s how confident I am that the current County structure is, indeed, broken.”
I totally agree the circumstances that Bob and SCDC used to appoint these two unelected commissioners has made a system that is unworkable and indeed broken..
Until then it was still a publicly adjustable system and not until it returns to a system that the voters are involved in electing their representatives will it have a chance at being unbroken.
“Rickey – if you want “facts” and “empirical” data that the County structure is, indeed, broken, I’ll be happy to discuss those topics with you, a sitting or past Commissioner, or anyone else in a public forum. ”
Well little al, you are either lying, or you haven’t seen your very public discussion which aired on public teevee. In it, when the public began asking you questions, you refused to address them, you turned to Fred, and hid behind his skirts until your little presentation was complete, then you turned and ran like the little man you really are. You ran away, so which is it al, are you lying about your ‘being happy to discuss in ANY public forum’, or have you forgotten your very public performance, whereby you ran from the room and refused to speak, nor acknowledge the public who came out to hear your words, and expected to be able to ask you questions.
I urge all of you who question me, watch it for yourself, it’s still there, I believe it’s headed: Watch Little Al Run”, enuff said.
Strange is right. Its the ability to have an all powerful administrator that should remind everyone just what is possible.
1. Put in a person that is controlled by the group(SCDC) that is proposing this and have a county government that is run with the same ideology and responsibility that the port of coos bay uses.
2. Vote in a home rule charter that some have complained has the potential to over bog down the county government with to much public oversight on what should be regular county business.
3. Leave the system we have alone and vote in some competent commissioners that can prove they are up to the task of being an elected “administrator”aka”commissioner” that is responsible for 1/3 of the job to manage and run the county until the public is convinced someone else could do the job better than them.
Whats so hard about deciding that?
” I base that stance on thirty-plus years of business experience.”
How precious.
Then why are We The Taxpayers bailing out your failing business model with our tax dollars?
Perhaps your ‘business experience’ simply means you learned how to suck at jonny barton, and the messer lies teats. That’s ALL you got now little al. You have learned how to appear professional while being a Welfare Queen, just like those that sit at your table.
Phony POS. Yes, that’s exactly what I said, you tried painting that t–d already al, it still stinks.
M? Forgive me, I am so sick of this charade being foisted upon this county and the suckers that run it.
Coos County workers? These SCDC tools won’t quit until you have NO damn jobs, I hope you understand this, from police down to the janitors, they don’t WANT you to have jobs, and they won’t stop until they get it. Or we stop them.
I won’t vote for either measure. But, didn’t fewer people sign the petition to dump Colby? And that ballot measure passed. Sounds like Al isn’t happy with his pal Cam for abandoning the party line. Strange.
Rickey – if you want “facts” and “empirical” data that the County structure is, indeed, broken, I’ll be happy to discuss those topics with you, a sitting or past Commissioner, or anyone else in a public forum. That’s how confident I am that the current County structure is, indeed, broken. I base that stance on thirty-plus years of business experience. Want a little proof? The most basic of business decisions involving departments such as Solid Waste, the Road Department and, most recently, the Planning department, were all politicized. When decisions become politicized they become campaign issues. When they become campaign issues Commissioners take positions based upon votes. Then we have to rely on the voters to be better informed than our own Commissioners. (Let’s not forget that the overwhelming majority of 2,700 people in this County signed the AAARRRGG petition without reading it.) And if the voters are so much smarter than the Commissioners then why do we have Commissioners at all? Let’s just let the voters run the County. We’ll put every little County decision to a vote once a year. Brilliant. (Isn’t that what AAAAAARGGGHHH is trying to do?) An Administrator should have been hired months ago. The clock continues to tick and the County isn’t getting any richer. Instead, hiring an Administrator – which requires as much voter approval as hiring a new cook – has now become a political issue that is going to the voters this fall – a full year after the Structure Committee gave its final report and nearly a year after the Governance Committee presented its initial recommendations. Only government would take this amount of time to make a few, simple decisions while doing a slow death in the midst of an economic meltdown. The world around us is changing at lightspeed, yet you recommend county governance remain in the dark ages. You persist that the county structure isn’t broken, yet when was the last time you heard the Commissioners discuss the coming retirement balloon, training and transitional plans for those retiring employees, cross-departmental training, the lack of a clear and precise budgeting process, ballooning healthcare costs, contingency plans for possible state funding cuts to various departments, PERS funding issues, IT requirements, Parks break-even challenges, etc., etc…? I’ll be happy to debate this issue on the simple premise on which it was born – that any organization lacking not only top level management (an Administrator) but middle-management as well (see “Jail”) is doomed to fail (see “Curry County”).
Appears that at least one of the triad finally agrees that the voters are not stupid.
So the cat is out of the bag.No facts to support the saving to the county.the lack ofeadership by Fred is showing. Fred it is time for you to resign you have done enough damage to coos county . Cam quit sPending our tax dollars on pet projects like the Johnson mill pond water mitigation idea you yourself said it was worthless by answering that and acre foot of water was worth about a Penney so why spend $10000 to have an attorney tell us what we already know . Coos county should be ran. By what is best for the majority of it citizens. I do miss going to meetings hopefully I ll get back to coos county soon I’m currently in Salt Lake City getting my cdl . M and Gang give them hell for me