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As major party lines blur Independent/3rd party candidates becoming more viable

As major party lines blur Independent/3rd party candidates becoming more viable
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A less obvious yet not too subtle consequence of the Occupy movement is an increased awareness of how little difference there is between how the major parties vote on social and economic legislation. Republicans and Democrats both appear to ascribe to the same “pro business” deregulation policies and tax inequality tenets that helped create the massive wealth gap that began with the Reagan administration.

…The incomes of the wealthiest 1 percent have nearly tripled since 1979. Everyone else? Not so much.

The chart on the right sets the scene. The after-tax incomes of the middle class (the 21st to 80th percentiles) have grown at about 1 percent per year since 1979, adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the wealthies 1 percent, meanwhile, have zoomed upward at a consderably faster pace.

Party lines have blurred around the globe and in the UK the Occupy London Stock Exchange protesters lament the fact that there is no longer any difference between the Houses of Commons and Lords as evidenced by the austerity measures enacted to avoid raising corporate income taxes. In many ways Coos County acts as a microcosm of national and even global issues and we see the same movement towards austerity and privatization of public resources here as we are seeing in Ireland and Greece.

A local democrat, Representative Arnie Roblan has announced his intention to run for State Senate to fill a seat to be vacated by Joanne Verger also a democrat. Both Verger and Roblan may as well be republicans as they vote with that side of the aisle frequently and the local chamber of commerce has bragged how both, along with their GOP counterparts Jeff Kruse and Wayne Krieger voted in line with chamber interests 100% of the time. Considering the chamber only represents a few dozen businesses in Coos County and our local representatives’ legislative record hasn’t stopped school weeks from shortening or unemployment rates from rising, or environmental degradation or the privatization of public assets it is really hard to tell what the difference is between Arnie Roblan and any other republican.

The two party system is old and tired and either polarizes constituents into favoring an ideology over common sense or, in an effort to meet in the middle renders both parties benign and impotent. If ever there was a time to run third party candidates it is now. We desperately need some out of the box thinkers not manipulated by shadowy groups like ALEC and self serving influence peddlers like the Koch brothers.

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About magix

When my oldest son, a Marine, left for war and crossed the border from Kuwait into Iraq in March 2003 I started writing my conscience. After two tours that young combat veteran’s mother is now an ardent peace activist and advocate for social, environmental and economic justice. MGx has matured since those early vents and ramblings and now covers relevant and important local and regional matters in addition to national and global affairs.

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108 Responses to "As major party lines blur Independent/3rd party candidates becoming more viable"

  1. MarkM  November 5, 2011 at 9:14 AM

    I’m sorry if I helped make this conversation personal.

    Let’s talk about how a third party can make it all better. 🙂

    Reply
  2. Gene Jennings  November 5, 2011 at 8:25 AM

    My apology’s to the surname Mckelvey, That was a disparaging remark, and uncalled for, and more important was wrong.
    I would deserve the same.

    Reply
  3. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 9:05 PM

    I am still not at all clear how a third party representative will make things better for Coos County, Oregon, or the USA.

    Reply
  4. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 8:56 PM

    Gene wrote:
    “Boycott, all the sponsors of things we don’t like. One at a time is OK. Even one person at a time is OK.”

    Would this include Blue Cross/Blue Shield? AIG? Amazon?

    Good idea (even if they are sponsors of MGx).

    You know, I haven’t bought one drop of fuel from Exxon since the Valdez spill. Think they care? Maybe I should write them a letter and tell them about it.

    Reply
  5. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 8:50 PM

    Gene wrote:
    “You name has not crossed my fingers, except in the current thread, and one earlier thread.”

    Wait a minute. Were you not being truthful when you said you’d already sent invitations??? MY grandma might have something to say about that.

    Reply
  6. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 8:45 PM

    Gene Jennings wrote:
    “your bully tactics could not be more apparent”

    Reread this thread and count how many pejoratives I’ve used against you.

    Then count how many you’ve used against me.

    Asking you to defend a position is not bullying.

    I’d really like to hear your plan is for the Port of Coos Bay. You’re all over the map. I’m not sure what you want.

    Reply
  7. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 8:38 PM

    Colandrio wrote:

    “By the way, I notice you respond to few of my suggestions. It is typical of Demos to not hear what they don’t like. That’s why I prefer the Pacific Green Party where everyone is heard equally.”

    You brought up alternative energies, agriculture, and local scrip. I responded to each one. What suggestion did I fail to hear?

    Reply
  8. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 8:34 PM

    Colandrio said:

    “I followed your link and discovered that the grant was denied last year. But everyone knows that passenger service is a money loser. Any study would have shown that. Does that mean that AMTRAK should cease? Or the NY subway? Eurorail? The government of the 99% has to make up the difference. Haven’t we had enough studies? Just bite the bullet and do what is best for all. Rail service to Eugene for pedestrians would be a boost for our area, no doubt about that.”

    Where’d you find out the grant was denied? I couldn’t find anything on it. Too bad.

    You should be pleased that the Port has a proposal for passenger trains nonetheless. Especially when you admit yourself that it is a money loser. I guess it’s OK for the government to support losing propositions when it’s on something you want, as opposed to something you don’t, like urban renewal districts. And how exactly would a passenger train “undoubtedly be a boost for our area” when “everyone knows it is a money loser?”

    Don’t quite see the logic there.

    Reply
  9. magix  November 4, 2011 at 7:05 PM

    Yes, Gene, and don’t forget that tomorrow is Bank Transfer Day… I was looking at different credit union websites and this one has created a page and will be open just for the occasion. https://community.nwcu.com/events/bank-transfer-day

    Remember, remember the 5th of November…

    Reply
  10. Gene Jennings  November 4, 2011 at 7:02 PM

    Comment #99 by a 99% supporter

    This one last Idea is not mine, but I could probably agree with it.
    Boycott, all the sponsors of things we don’t like. One at a time is OK. Even one person at a time is OK.

    Reply
  11. Gene Jennings  November 4, 2011 at 2:34 PM

    The maglevs are coming, maybe not in my lifetime. The suggestion was poised as a why not, why cant this port comprehend an economic opportunity, that will happen everywhere but here.
    I concede, we have no sizable population to justify a maglev system for only our populace. I propose that serious consideration be given to the prospect of supplying the inevitable transport advancements, we know are coming, and start making those connections now, not after twenty or more years of what we have been seeing proposed for this area.
    I concede that the local powers, have been handi-capping this area, by setting this fossil fuel based economy as the best path forward.for the opportunity to make a buck.
    I concede you will keep attacking for reasons, that we all know are designed to discredit anyone opposing this agenda set for the port.
    You name has not crossed my fingers, except in the current thread, and one earlier thread.
    You win. Peace be with you.

    Reply
  12. Gene Jennings  November 4, 2011 at 1:43 PM

    Mark, I’m sorry that spreading the agenda of these dems in power seems like punishment, I would rather think of it as spreading the coos gospel.
    To the charge of not debating you, why would anyone want to give you things to slam, your not facing reality , and your definitely trying to pick a fight. Smart as you might like to think you are, your bully tactics could not be more apparent, I would be very surprised that members of your party would find that behavior acceptable in your position of representing the dems. My gandma told me that you can never elevate a fool in an argument, you can only descend to their level. So you have no argument coming from me.

    Reply
  13. Colandrio  November 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM

    MarkM,
    I followed your link and discovered that the grant was denied last year. But everyone knows that passenger service is a money loser. Any study would have shown that. Does that mean that AMTRAK should cease? Or the NY subway? Eurorail? The government of the 99% has to make up the difference. Haven’t we had enough studies? Just bite the bullet and do what is best for all. Rail service to Eugene for pedestrians would be a boost for our area, no doubt about that.

    By the way, I notice you respond to few of my suggestions. It is typical of Demos to not hear what they don’t like. That’s why I prefer the Pacific Green Party where everyone is heard equally. Roberts Rules are a neat way to keep from hearing minorities or unpopular ideas. Consensus is true democracy. Roberts Rules have crippled the U.S. Senate and turned it into the farce that it is today. Consensus is not easy, I know, but anything worth doing is usually difficult.

    As the 99% start to turn political, you notice that it is using direct action. I love the Oakland General Strike. It shows a non-violent way to go. And we got the BofA to rescind its greedy fee!

    Reply
  14. MarkM  November 4, 2011 at 6:09 AM

    So rather than debate me, you want to “punish” me. Probably a wise move since you couldn’t defend a maglev train, and I haven’t heard a single thing in this thread that a third party could accomplish for Coos County.

    And you’re going to “punish” me by giving me publicity? Really? OK. Spell the name right.

    Just imagine what you could do to me if your third party had any power. Yeah, that’s real progressive.

    Might be easier to show me an idea.

    Reply
  15. aghast!  November 3, 2011 at 9:39 PM

    Ha! You’re on to something Gene. At the very least this archive should be a primer for other democratic central committees on how NOT to entice progressives to the party

    Reply
  16. Gene Jennings  November 3, 2011 at 9:35 PM

    You may look at this as tattling, but I prefer to think of it as sharing your progressive info and insight. They may not check this blog out, from the invite I just sent them, and the huffington post may not look at it either, but by the time I’m done surely someone will be looking at the progressive voice of coos county..

    Reply
  17. Gene Jennings  November 3, 2011 at 9:19 PM

    As a matter of fact, you’ve inspired me to get this agenda you have exposed,(Arnie and the dems have been for coal and LNG all along, while they told their constituents that they could not make up their mind), spread a little further out, than just coos county. I think we should run your agenda through the national party, and get the ball moving. Archives are great stuff for fact checking, don’t you think, that’s a good Idea, and very progressive. Ed Schultz, Rachael Maddow, and Lawrence O’Donnell, will be pretty surprised when they read how progressive this local dem party has become. And they will wonder why the dems are losing support.

    Reply
  18. Gene Jennings  November 3, 2011 at 9:03 PM

    Mark which one of the shills are you at the world, everyman,dhcollins,oh crap i forgot the names of the rest of your gang. If your on your own, then the dems will be real proud of you when they read this whole series of bull from you. good job, your representing them well.

    Reply
  19. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM

    Oh man, I am so busted. That’s right, the Democratic Party gave me a grant to bully posters on MGx. Our goal was to motivate you all to take over the Republican Party.

    Victory is ours!

    Reply
  20. Gene Jennings  November 3, 2011 at 4:40 PM

    I “might” be able to agree with mark on one thing. He suggests that “The party”, should not be abandoned, because we don’t like the direction it has gone, and now might be a good time to sweep in and change its agenda.
    Since the dems have taken the job of representing the dirty extractive coal industry and the fracking gas company’s, and the repubs are in disarray, right now may be the time to rebuild the party of lincoln. What do you think?
    If the dems want the support of the 99%, then they need to quit representing the 1%. Marks not here by accident, they had to send in a bully, but that too will probably backfire for the dems.

    Reply
  21. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 1:32 PM

    Why does it look like that?

    Reply
  22. themguys  November 3, 2011 at 1:27 PM

    Looks like the Port and the county ignore the millions of dollars in studies because they can’t make them say what they want them to say. It doesn’t fit in their plans.

    Same old same old.

    Reply
  23. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 1:17 PM

    http://www.coosbayraillink.com/

    Click on “Grants.”

    I wasn’t aware of this either. Maybe the granted didn’t get funded? The study is supposed to be completed soon if so.

    At least they’re thinking about it. I’d still be surprised if it was economically feasible, but could be.

    Reply
  24. Colandrio  November 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM

    “The Port has a proposal for passenger rail. It has universal bipartisan support. A viability study of the proposal is underway and should be completed soon. ”

    Mark, can you give me a reference for this study? I’ve never heard of it and I follow the port pretty closely. Of course, they rarely talk about anything at their public meetings, so I’m not surprised. However, I sense that since it is something they really don’t want to do (their corporate sponsors wouldn’t benefit), it has been put on the slow track (pun intended).

    Reply
  25. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 10:25 AM

    The White House solar panels are “taking longer than expected” because of the procurement process.

    http://whitehouse.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/white-house-solar-panels-still-in-the-works/

    Not sure what the hold up is, but even though the project is six months behind, it is still a go. By the way, it’s PV and water.

    Reply
  26. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 10:16 AM

    The Port has a proposal for passenger rail. It has universal bipartisan support. A viability study of the proposal is underway and should be completed soon. Maybe it will prove to be as cost effective as you say. If a train is deemed viable for passengers in the future, I don’t know why a bus wouldn’t be even better today.

    Pres Obama and the Dems proposed more than once to rescind oil subsidies. Republicans said No. What would a Green Congressman do any differently? The Dems are not the problem here.

    Obama has allocated millions of dollars for solar projects and research. Perhaps replacing the panels on the WH would be a good PR move.

    All the Elliott old growth is protected. It will not be cut under the present ten year agreement. It would still be great to get carbon credits for it though. But actually it’s the newly planted stands that are the best carbon-suckers. We should definitely get some credits for those. If those stands earn money while they are growing, that’s fewer trees we have to cut to hit our revenue marks.

    Reply
  27. Colandrio  November 3, 2011 at 8:24 AM

    Mark,
    As you are aware, Greyhound deserted the Oregon coast many years ago. Not viable, I guess, you never know with capitalists. The state should have stepped in then to carry the load, but did not. Undoubtedly, Mark, you have an automobile. Those of us who do not find ourselves with few options to leave the area. As a public agency, I had hoped the Port would realize it’s potential in this area. The train route here could be a huge tourist attraction. It passes through spectacular country. We need a way to get connected to AMTRAK which could then lead to more tourism.
    My proposal is for self powered individual cars (like trolleys) which are used daily out of New York. They are lighter and can easily be run on freight tracks.

    Sure German solar power is government subsidized. So are the oil companies. The Dems have gone along with these subsidies, but your Obama has not even put back the solar panels on the White House. What is that about?

    AS for the Elliot, it is obvious that the rotation of new for old is going to continue and there won’t be much older growth left in thirty years. Guess I’m a pessimist when it comes to the lumber industry and Oregon.

    Reply
  28. MarkM  November 3, 2011 at 7:07 AM

    I assume you’re responding to my response on energy. In sum, I’m asking how a third party would be able to achieve more than Democrats have, especially when it’s been Republicans holding us up.

    Reply
  29. Gene Jennings  November 3, 2011 at 4:27 AM

    Its spooky, how Mark says he agrees with someone, and then states just the opposite as that agreement. I sure wouldn’t want to buy a used car from him.

    Reply
  30. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 10:51 PM

    Colandrio,

    I agree with you about energy. As I’m sure you know, German solar is heavily subsidized. It will be hard to match their achievements until we get a more cooperative Congress for Pres Obama who has spent more money on alternative energy than all the presidents before him combined. We could do in Coos County what was done in Lake County, but we’re going to need help from Salem which won’t be coming until Dems are in control of the House again. That’s just the truth. And despite its success, Lake Co’s economy is still struggling. Perhaps you know a sympathetic venture capitalist? No doubt we have enormous potential here and alt energy needs to be a key plank of our future. The question is: How do we get it done?

    Yes, the Democratic Land Board opened up 100 more acres of Elliot for logging and 250 more for clear cutting. As you know, Oregon’s Constitution requires it to do so to fund schools. However, this constitutes less than one percent of the forest, and the plan will be reviewed annually. That means each year we have a chance to present a plan to substitute carbon credits for harvested acres. The Board and ODF are both open to this idea. We should pursue it. Don’t forget, the Board also increased the protected areas, mostly old growth and older stands, by over 20%, to 28,000 acres. Credit where it’s due.

    I don’t understand the desire for a people-train. It would be very expensive and would take some time to either build or fit. The freight tracks are not rated for passenger trains. Why is that so important? Wouldn’t a bus service be faster, cheaper, and more convenient? We could have one running tomorrow (if we had the money, of course.) I don’t understand how a passenger train would be a significant economic stimulator as it doesn’t provide something we don’t already have. You’ll have to explain to me why it would be worth the cost. I’d rather put the money into energy projects.

    Reply
  31. Colandrio  November 2, 2011 at 9:49 PM

    Sorry Mark, but my idea was for energy independence with the latest technologies available. Just like what the German towns have instituted and were the reason for several Coos County political junkets last year. As for carbon credits from the Elliot, I doubt there will be much left after the latest changes to the logging plan which exchanges logged out plattes for the pristine ones. A plan approved by Dems.
    Re: the railroad. I see no reason why the port can’t build sidelines for freight trains where they can park while trolley-like cars traverse the line giving us passenger service without long trains. Smaller cars can travel faster as well, so it wouldn’t take three days to get to Eugene. Two round trips a day would be a good start and not impede freight traffic. I tried to bring this up at a Port meeting one evening, but those people cannot hear anything but the static in their heads.

    Caddy McKeown?!!! Seriously?

    Reply
  32. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 9:19 PM

    Me too.

    But don’t kid yourself. There’s a lot of ideology on this board.

    So what’s your new party’s three point plan? Make it good and I may even vote for it.

    Seriously, what’s your third party going to do?

    Reply
  33. magix  November 2, 2011 at 8:28 PM

    Am I so grateful to be independent and free of party ideology

    Reply
  34. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    Yea, he sure makes me want to be a dem, and I’m sure his rhetoric has swayed many readers. He’s the best mouthpiece the local Dems have?

    Reply
  35. themguys  November 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM

    Parallel Universe.

    Reply
  36. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 7:10 PM

    Ah, Gene. I thought we were doing so well, since we’ve agreed about the train. We’re not so different.

    Embrace the complexity.

    Reply
  37. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 6:25 PM

    I hope all of you thank mark for displaying the similarities between the two partys.

    Reply
  38. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM

    I forgot the best part about coal: By the time it’s run its course, we’ve the maglev of high tech ports ready to ship and receive all of the world’s products, a gateway to the two largest markets in the world.

    Pretty sweet.

    Reply
  39. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM

    “I’m done, so the rest of the floor is yours, unless someone else is willing to try to engage your corporate mindset.”

    My mind is not owned. It’s open.

    Reply
  40. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:49 PM

    You know, I’m not crazy about the coal idea. I didn’t like it at first, but the more I look at it the more sense it makes for Coos County, imo.

    Like I said, the coal is going to be burned one way or another. That much is just simply beyond our control. That’s very bad for the climate, but there is an upside.

    Shipping coal to China raises the global price of coal. Some estimates are by a factor of five. Now some people warn that that will increase energy costs in the US. Yes it will. For dirty coal. It also makes the much cleaner natural gas much more economically attractive. On balance, that’s a plus for the climate. Also, expensive coal and higher energy prices make alternative energies more viable. That’s a big plus for the climate.

    So, we may have to burn a little more coal before we get our carbon problem under control. China knows this. As you know, China is the world’s leader in alternative energy production. Coal is an interim solution for them. They know they won’t be burning it for long. It is a means to an end.

    That’s what it should be for us too.

    Reply
  41. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:47 PM

    I’m done, so the rest of the floor is yours, unless someone else is willing to try to engage your corporate mindset.

    Reply
  42. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:42 PM

    “Ok, Mark, how long before your train pays back the people of oregon, and how many extensions do you think you will need, the tax payers have a right to hear the prognosis for a profit , and how will you stop your dirty train long enough to build the new one you think we might eventually get around to building.”

    Good questions, Gene. I don’t know the answers. I’m sure we can figure out some estimates with enough information. The public definitely has a right to know and should be involved in the full process.

    Reply
  43. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:38 PM

    It wasn’t my idea. It was Colandrio’s. I was just agreeing with it.

    Sorry to make you rant so, but it sounded like you were ranting about carbon credits. Unfortunately we disagree about this too. The EU, Australia, New Zealand, and now California are all paying carbon credits for forests. Why would we not want to investigate this revenue stream as a way to preserve old stands of the Elliot Forest, or to supplement our vanishing O&C money?

    You’re correct that it offers some polluters the chance to continue polluting for a fee. Mitigation may look like a giveaway on the micro level (and it is in some cases) BUT is works on the macro level. It’s the best way we’ve ever developed to tackle global environmental problems.

    Besides, if California wants to pay me to not cut down a tree, I think the appropriate response is, “OK.”

    Reply
  44. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:36 PM

    Ok, Mark, how long before your train pays back the people of oregon, and how many extensions do you think you will need, the tax payers have a right to hear the prognosis for a profit , and how will you stop your dirty train long enough to build the new one you think we might eventually get around to building.

    Reply
  45. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:29 PM

    If you had called it the weatherization program, you wouldn’t have made me rant so.
    again whats new about that, its been going on since the 1990’s, it wont create any sizable amount of new jobs, and should not be held up as your big progressive idea.
    when you guys say think big, you mean profits, not ideas.

    Reply
  46. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:29 PM

    Gene, I completely agree with your description of what a high functioning Coos Bay Port would look like. I just don’t think a maglev train adds much value to it, certainly not for the cost. All we need is a slow, steady train to reliably travel the 100 or so miles to the inland market routes. A good old-fashioned choo-choo is just the ticket. Once the Port is up and running as you describe, the train will pay for itself in no time and we’ll be ready for an upgrade. Then, newer more expensive technology (possibly with a passenger component) would make sense.

    We have to walk before running.

    Reply
  47. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 5:17 PM

    By “conservation conversions” I meant weatherizing homes and buildings. It does create lots of jobs. It saves energy and there is funding available to do it in our state. In our county though we lack sufficient customers for it to be an economic driver. Works great in Portland and Eugene though. Not saying we shouldn’t do it — we should. It’s just not a silver bullet.

    Reply
  48. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:08 PM

    Mark. I know the maglev for us is a pipe dream. The only way it could work for us is if the port were used to import the products the rest of the world is building, and let us give added value by doing the construction, and be the gateway for the west coast side of the project, your right, we have no sizable population to justify a maglev just for us, but with the public now owning the right of way for a badly deteriorated RR, isn’t this the perfect time to lean forward and give serious thought to putting us on the map for something other than the bad ideas your promoting.. I know your answer is no, because of your obstructionist attitude.

    Reply
  49. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 4:41 PM

    Yep, just as i thought, your already a maglev expert, your wisdom on the subject is overwhelming. China,Japan,France, and Germany are taking the lead in this technology, and your party is willing to concede defeat, because we need to ship coal.

    Reply
  50. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 4:36 PM

    Conservation conversions, a scheme to pollute more “Legally”, they will buy a piece of land, promise to not pollute it, then be able to sell their non-polluting credits they award themselves, to heavy polluters, the investor makes a buck, and the polluter has found another loop hole to keep doing business as usual. Is this an example of being progressive.

    Reply
  51. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 4:29 PM

    No, I am not a maglev train expert. I only know that there are only three operating for the public in the whole world. I know that all of them are in Asia. I know that there are five proposed high speed maglev passenger projects in the US; and I know only one has so much as partial funding. I know all of them serve high population areas.

    I know that maglevs go faster when they go straight and flat. I know we don’t have much straight and flat in the Coast Range.

    I know that we could barely scrap together the money to rebuild our “19th Century” train. I know of no one who want to invest billions of dollars in a Eugene-Coos Bay maglev train that would serve fewer people than live in a NYC neighborhood.

    Look, I’m totally on board with high speed trains and mass transit, but unless you know something I don’t know, I know a Coos County maglev train is beyond a pipe dream.

    What do you know that I don’t know?

    Reply
  52. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    Yep, that’s what he said, and he shows that he knows just a little bit less than nothing about maglev trains. they can cross just about any terrain and not leave a harsh footprint. that crowd of dem/repubs pushing this crap of gassy coal, aren’t about to let us get a maglev while there’s profit to be made, the profit that is never shared with the public who owns the resources they mine.

    Reply
  53. aghast!  November 2, 2011 at 11:25 AM

    Wait! Did Mark just say that somebody is going to profit from transporting dirty fuel, ruining the environment, enabling continued dependence on old technology and making people in a far away land sick so it may as well be Coos Bay? Is that what he said? That sure looks like what he said.

    Reply
  54. Colandrio  November 2, 2011 at 10:46 AM

    Mark, Apparently you haven’t been keeping up with developments in energy production. Energy companies will lie, cheat, and steal to make a profit. (ENRON, Whoops, BP, fracking, coal ash disposal- have you seen yesterday’s report about that?) You can’t control them once they are in your area. You can’t make a deal with the devil and come out ahead. They will totally dominate the local politics more than they already have. You say that the coal will be burned in Asia. Where do you think the pollution from those plants will blow? Hold your finger to the wind and you’ll see. I don’t want to facilitate the use of this filthy fuel in any case. If we make it difficult to get perhaps they will convert to better options. And have you ever visited a coal export facility? Do you think there will be no coal dust wafting from the North Spit when the Nor- westers blow? Or drift along the railway right of way?

    As for the dream of a world class port in Coos Bay, that ship has already left. The new paradigm of Panama Canal ready shipping would require endless and extensive damage by constant dredging. It would destroy our beautiful bay and estuaries and ruin one of the last pristine salmon breeding systems on the coast.

    If you claim progressive, why do you insist on the ways of the past? We are dying because of the old technology you espouse. Wake up.

    Reply
  55. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM

    Local scrips are interesting and worth considering. Local banking is better. Developing a “Sustainable Coos” brand is even better. Keeping as much of our county’s wealth in the county is good thinking.

    We have enormous potential for alternative energies. I mentioned that Lake Co. has become an energy exporter. We would do well to learn from their example and copy much of what they’ve done. However, we need to keep in mind that Lake Co. has not become economically prosperous because of their efforts. Alt energy is not a savior; but it is an important piece of what we should be doing.

    Conservation conversions are an attractive proposal with potential for us and there is funding available for it in our state. The thing is, you need people who are able to buy them. Our economic base is not strong enough to make this an economic driver. Again, it should be an important piece though.

    Our port is the key. It is the undervalued gem of the West Coast. Pacific Rim trade is only going to grow as our world becomes smaller and more integrated. We are well-positioned to make a fine, sustainable living off of it. We have a chance to do it on our terms. I think we should.

    Reply
  56. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM

    I am not a proponent of mining coal in Coos County. Or burning it here either. But that’s not what we’re talking about.

    The coal in Wyoming is some of the cleanest grade on earth. Clean coal is a myth. But cleanER coal is not. Now, this coal will be burned. Most of it will be burned in Asia. There is no way anyone can stop that from happening. The coal will be shipped overseas through a port somewhere on the west coast.

    Why not here? Overseas coal shipping is a short term proposition. It will soon be obsolete as cleaner energy sources develop. In the meantime Coos County gets an international shipping facility developed that can be utilized to import and export a laundry list of products between the two largest markets on the planet. This is our foot in a very profitable door that would help reinvent our local economy.

    Why would you NOT want to do it?

    Reply
  57. Colandrio  November 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    Mark M, If progressive to you means supporting 19th century technology such as coal, gas, and rail; then you have forfeited your label as progressive. You ask for a plan. My plan is to take all this money wasted by our local agencies on promoting coal, gas, rail, extract mining, source extraction, etc. and make our area energy independent with roof solar, wind, wave, and conservation techniques. All labor intensive areas that will reduce our unemployment problem. We can join “local economies” to produce more of our food than we do now. Have you ever heard of “Berkshares”? This is locally produced scrip that is bought and used by locals to ensure more of their money stays local. It has been very successful in Massachusetts. There are so many other progressive ideas successfully used elsewhere that I cannot begin to list them all here.
    I am surprised by your support of SCDC and their stillborn SDAT program. I signed up to help with that and months later I have never been notified of any further meetings. When I tried to find out what had happened I was told that SCDC was waiting for a grant to proceed. What BS!

    It’s obvious to me, Mark, that you took a step or two backward when you left the PGP to participate in the farce that is the Democratic Party. Caddy McKeown?? Seriously?

    Reply
  58. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 8:39 AM

    tg,

    When you marshal all your forces and elect a PGP rep to Salem, what will s/he do for Coos County? What’s the plan?

    Maybe you’re right. Show me.

    (usually this is where the conversation ends or we change subjects.)

    Reply
  59. themguys  November 2, 2011 at 8:24 AM

    Amazing isn’t it? I’ve been doing the same thing for months on the other blog, and it’s infuriating to see him call himself The Progressive of Coos Co., he either really doesn’t get it, which I doubt, but enjoys parading around in his widdle Progressive Suit as some form of identification. But boy oh boy , that one does not have a clue. I love it when he crows about ‘joining us at the table”, yup, he wants us to join him and Sandy Messerle at that big open table she sits at, remember? The one you have to be invited to, but she coinvinces the progressive that it’s open to everyone, even after proving she lied to him on his own show, he still likes those pigs at the trough, loves em.

    Arnie Roblan as a Democrat my old arse, and Mark thinks Roblan walks on water. Just ask him. They aren’t just annoying, these clowns actually impede any progress we can make on a third party candidate. So I wish they’d just stay at that trough the piglets feed from here in Coos County and leave the work to the rest of us. There’s not a progressive in this local lot of Dems.Remember when the local schools got cut so hard? The Dems on the board/teachers wrote glowing stories in the World, praising the new cuts, you know, making the old lemonade thingey, while Wall Street gambles your school funding away. Unbelievable. Like Gene said I think, why bother?
    This one also believes the Occupiers in Oakland “shouldn’t throw stuff at police, huh?” And the mayor of Oakland is a Dem, for gawds’ sake, you cannot impeach her, she’s the occupiers best friend, and he’s ready to condemn the movent at every turn. It’s an amazing thing to watch, but annoying as hell.

    Slurp slurp Mark.

    Reply
  60. MarkM  November 2, 2011 at 8:10 AM

    A freight train does serve the needs of the people. By helping to develop Coos Bay into an international port, it stimulates all kinds of business and growth which provides jobs, funds schools and social services, and creates opportunity. That makes Coos County a better place to live for people.

    A people-train would not do that. But a functioning freight line could be a precursor to a people line. Even a traditional line is much more expensive to build for people than it is for freight. Through the challenging Coast Range terrain the speeds are likely to stay low. That’s why a Maglev would be superfluous for us: the cost of building one through the mountains would be exorbitant, and we’d never be able to take full advantage of it — i.e., let that baby run at 200mph.

    A Maglev is a better choice for the I-5 corridor. In fact, the Democrats want to build one. Guess who is stopping it? (usual suspects) So, if you want more trains, we’re going to need more Democrats.

    In the meantime, we do have a need for mass transit to/from the valley and up and down the coast. A bus service is a perfect fit. We could establish a fleet of electric powered buses and build an infrastructure of charging stations that could also power electric cars. Or we could use natural gas powered buses (if only we had a supply of LNG . . .)

    How would I pay for it? I’d elect Democratic majorities in Salem and DC and combine state and federal funds with local initiatives like those you described. Could happen.

    Then, as traffic picks up, the economy grows, and the freight line develops, a people-train may become more cost-effective, advantageous, and even necessary.

    I think we need to compartmentalize our long-term goals and the short-terms steps we need to take to get there. We may need to implement some short-term steps that wouldn’t be our first choice, but if we are smart we can get much of what we want. If we hold out for perfect from the get-go, we’ll get nothing. We have assets and advantages that industry wants. Let’s use them to get what we want instead of giving them away to the lowest bidder.

    Reply
  61. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:43 AM

    Sorry about the typos, in my postings. There’s something you can pick at Mark.

    Reply
  62. Gene Jennings  November 2, 2011 at 5:39 AM

    Mark, reread these postings. Your incapable of comprehending the progressiveness, of having a train that will serve more than just the industrialists. Why would I want to tell you anything about an idea that your just going to KEEP shooting at. See when you where first presented with the concept,(not mine, not new) you appeared interested so you could get me to give you more ammo for your attack. Instead of saying something like,” your funding plan wont work, but this “idea” might be a way to help get the funding”, no, you present nothing even showing that your capable of seriously contemplating the idea.
    A prototype cost me 2 mil a mile at first. Do you seriously think the price wont decrease as with learn what were doing, and speed the new system all across the USA. Check your words, you said it will never happen and yet you profess to be able to think progressively.

    Reply
  63. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 10:37 PM

    I remember something about a $20 billion train.

    Look, I’m not going to beg. If you don’t want to share, fine.

    Reply
  64. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 10:24 PM

    I can see that you are able to read, but not able to comprehend.

    Reply
  65. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 10:09 PM

    What’s your agenda?

    Reply
  66. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 10:06 PM

    I see democrats behind the deals that have the potential to end all life in the coos bay area. the best idea I can come up with is to help end the tyranny, by sending the players home. So don’t try to pretend we share the same agenda. Go play with Al.

    Reply
  67. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 10:04 PM

    Finally, a progressive idea: Pissing everyone off.

    OK, well that’s easy to do, but I don’t see how it makes things much better for Coos County. I think you should stick with the people-train, Gene.

    I’m not here to fight. I just want to have a conversation. But it seems if you’re not singing with the choir you’re not allowed in this church.

    Reply
  68. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 9:51 PM

    Does this guy remind you of anyone, anyone remember the guy that comes here and picks fights to prove how worthy he is of being a possible replacement candidate for the repub side, This progressive guy is the dem counterpart. We’re pissing off both sides now. i believe we’re making progress.

    Reply
  69. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 9:48 PM

    So you have no ideas. Very disappointing. I thought you had something to offer.

    You know it’s possible for someone to think the Port is a good idea without being a “shill” for it. Without the Port we may as well be Baker City.

    I’m still willing to listen and learn when/if you come up with something more than insults. Maybe you’re right. I just don’t see any evidence of it.

    Reply
  70. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 9:42 PM

    Not only a shill for the port, but also for the corrupt Dem party that is trying to lead the public down a path of more of the same-ol-same business, and protect the incomes of the people trying to profit from these scams, brought to us by the port and the dems, who are in power. You only want people to be dems, so your boys can keep playing the same ol game of who gets to be in charge of screwing the public now,so called progressive dems or their social counterparts the repubs. just my opinion, and you wouldn’t know a progressive idea if it bit you on the Mckelvey.
    so don’t keep asking us to explain it to you, its obvious,you just don’t seem to understand the problem, since your part of it.. .

    Reply
  71. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 9:25 PM

    Gene, what’s your progressive vision for Coos County?

    No port and a people-train? Really, what’s your plan? Maybe you’re right.

    Reply
  72. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 9:20 PM

    A rose by any other . . .

    Reply
  73. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

    Well Mr. progressive, you started out talking the talk about renewables,(nothing new there, we’ve all been pushing for that, and yet, things are slow walked for the oil/gas interest), then you go right in the toilet with your so called progressiveness, by promoting the negative energy choices, your no progressive, your a shill for port.

    Reply
  74. aghast!  November 1, 2011 at 9:17 PM

    Mark’s right. The 99% can take over and revamp the Democratic party and start off by changing its name to the Pacific Green Party…

    Reply
  75. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 9:07 PM

    Colandrio,

    Sure, PacGreens have supported voting reform for a long time. A long time. A long, long time. That’s my point.

    I’d rather elect some Democrats who will support the Fair Elections Now! Act. Then we can change things.

    I love the OWS movement. But if the 99% don’t vote it won’t mean a thing. Hey, if they all vote Green, great. Again, I’d ask: Why re-invent the wheel? What’s so hard about taking over a party? The 99% could do great things if they owned the Dem Party. Better than Roosevelt.

    Reply
  76. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 8:57 PM

    I’ll give you two. Let’s establish the Sustainable Coos the SDAT described. Lake Co, Oregon has become an energy exporter. They’ve utilized geothermal, wind, solar, and biomass to meet all of their energy needs and sell off the excess. We can do the same and one better: we have wave too.

    We also have possibilities for sustainable agriculture. Organic and value added products can be very viable here. Wood products included. Shipping logs is crazy. We do better when we can make them into things.

    Secondly, Coos Bay is a sleeping giant, world class port. It is a gateway to the world’s fastest growing market — the Pacific Rim. The rail line is the essential missing piece. We now have a connection to America’s heartland and everything in it. We lack infrastructure to capitalize on our natural opportunity. LNG and coal can provide that. LNG gives us the redundant energy capacity we need to attract manufacturing, and coal is a short term proposition that portends a wide array of exports. The key is getting a deal that works for everybody. The devil is always in the details and too often Coos County has not done well with the details.

    I know for many LNG, coal, and the Port are non-starters. Too bad. I think they are each worth talking about. I don’t think they are ends to a sound economy, but I do see them as a means, building blocks, to a better future for Coos County.

    Those are a couple of my progressive ideas. What are yours?

    Reply
  77. Colandrio  November 1, 2011 at 8:12 PM

    Mark, your party has been roundly rejected by the Occupy Wall St. Movement. This is America’s future. These young progressives know that the republicrats have sold them down the river and of necessity have started out to reinvent the political system. They are using consensus in their meetings, something the Greens have done from the beginning. As for voting reform, the GP has been advocating for that before I ever heard a Democrat mention it. As a confessed former Green, you should know that. The Green Party is the natural way to go for this movement. We have been waiting for the 99% to catch up with us, and it appears our time has come.

    Reply
  78. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 7:57 PM

    Mr. progressive, the people you support are helping the corporate raiders steal public resources. How can you, being so progressive and all support the LNG, the coal, the whole log exports, the fraudulent use of tax dollars for non-existent job development, stomach your party’s representatives.
    Please tell us more about a progressive idea you have, that will impress us with your progressiveness.

    Reply
  79. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 7:35 PM

    Here are two goals we (should) share:

    Get the money out of politics.

    Instant Run Off Voting.

    How do you (anyone) propose we achieve them?

    Reply
  80. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 7:33 PM

    Great Republican Accomplishments:
    WMDs in Iraq
    Corporations are People
    Money is Speech

    Great Democratic Accomplishments:
    Improved Health Care
    Improved Financial Regulation
    Vote by Mail/Register online

    Great Green Accomplishments:
    Ten Key Values
    Noble Stances
    Good Fights

    I used to vote Green. I got tired of getting either nothing or George W. Bush. I was starting to feel like Charlie Brown on Halloween. Always a rock.

    Democrats are not perfect. Far from it. But they are moving in the right direction. I’ve learned you move the party better from the inside than from the outside. Sometimes incremental steps are huge. True progressives believe in them.

    You influence the conversation far more when you’re at the table than you do peering in through a window.

    Why is it so hard to take over a party? Show up. That’s the first step.

    Or vote Green and feel noble that you’ve put up a good fight. But achieved nothing.

    Maybe you have a better strategy? You call 25% of the vote a success? I think you got creamed. You lost (BIG). I’m listening, though. If you have a better strategy, fill me in. But I’m getting older and I can’t wait long. Burning down the village to save it is a fool’s errand; we should have learned better by now.

    I prefer progress. That’s why I’m a progressive.

    Reply
  81. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 5:00 PM

    Colandrio, Magix, your both right, The PGP will have my vote, as they are the third choice we have. My sarcasm about voting for a repub over a PHONY dem, seems to have touched a nerve, perhaps the word PHONY caused all the ruckus.

    Reply
  82. magix  November 1, 2011 at 2:21 PM

    @Colandrio – The green party does come the closest to responsibly addressing the economic and environmental issues I feel are at the root of our present condition. The two party system has gotten us into this mess and you can’t ask the bull to fix the china shop – time for new parties, lots of them and new thinking

    Reply
  83. Colandrio  November 1, 2011 at 1:19 PM

    Hey Folks, again I hold out the Pacific Green Party as the logical place for Oregon progressives to go. We’ve been around for years now and even elected a few candidates. People have been brainwashed to believe that voting for any other party but the republicrats is throwing one’s vote away. Not true. The Dems have always needed a push from the left to get anything accomplished. In the thirties it was the Communists and the Socialists who did most of the dirty work of organizing labor and the people to support the changes needed then. A vote to the left of the Dems sends a bigger message than a vote for Arnie or Caddy, believe me.

    Arnie is a bureauocrat who has reached a level beyond his vision, and I’m afraid Caddy is modeled in the same mode.

    Vote for them if you like, Mark, but your vote does nothing to push for the change we need.

    Reply
  84. dragon  November 1, 2011 at 8:29 AM

    Hey! That’s pretty good. Mark shows what’s wrong with the Democrats’ thinking by expressing it, and Mark shows what’s wrong with the Dem’s thinking by criticizing it. Isn’t it wonderful how the Dem’s thinking and rhetoric remain the same year after year? How long before we are told that we have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils?

    Reply
  85. MarkM  November 1, 2011 at 7:49 AM

    Kill you off?!?! I’m inviting you in!

    Your plan seems to be to ostracize those who disagree with you.

    Oregon is one of the most progressive states in the union BECAUSE OF the Democratic Party of Oregon (DPO) not in spite of it. It’s not just that Republicans want to tear it all down, but that Democrats are serious about building more.

    Take a look at the DPO platform, planks, and legislative action items. Tell there’s nothing there you could support.

    http://www.dpo.org/party

    Tell me that Sen Jeff Merkley and Rep Peter DeFazio aren’t two of the strongest progressive voices in DC. We need more like them, not fewer.

    Democrats have a big tent. We want and need everyone. It is the party of the people. But if the people don’t show up, corporate America is only to happy to move in and buy it.

    Nobody’s vote should be taken for granted. I’m always willing to consider viable alternatives. Did you give me one? Seems like you said you’d rather vote for a Republican. Sorry. I don’t think making our state a whole lot worse is more viable than making it a little bit better.

    That’s what being a progressive is all about — progress.

    Reply
  86. Gene Jennings  November 1, 2011 at 5:20 AM

    To everyone,but Mark Mckelvey. The previous post are a good example of how both the dems and the repubs operate. Kill the other guy off, by first pretending to be on their side, then try to pick apart the logic of your opponent , and finally present your candidate as the only viable option. It just doesnt work anymore, because they ultimately have to rely on what they do represent.
    These dems want all the same industry, that the repubs want. they hope the extra attention they give to social issues will separate them from the repubs . Its not gonna work anymore. Don’t let the dems take your vote for granted.

    Reply
  87. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 11:21 PM

    I do enjoy a good argument, Gene. Thanks. Let’s do it again sometime. I think we both want the same things for our community.

    Reply
  88. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 11:13 PM

    Its no use arguing with you, Mark. you know where I stand,and thanks to your last few post’s, i know where you and the democrat party stand. Thanks for the exchange, good night.

    Reply
  89. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM

    Are you saying what this County needs is a people-train?

    Reply
  90. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 11:03 PM

    I absolutely would have everyone vote for Arnie Roblan for Senate seat 5. He has been very good for this area and he will continue to be. He has real star power in Salem now which works strongly in our favor. Sure, Arnie’s not a perfect candidate. But there is no perfect candidate. I want to be more progressive and go faster, but Arnie’s moving in the right direction. He’s facilitated key pieces of infrastructure that we cannot grow without.

    Keeping the Senate in Democratic hands and swinging the House back to a Democratic majority is imperative for Oregon. Had we had only but one more Democratic House representative last session we would have gotten much stronger health care legislation, mortgage foreclosure protection, a BBP ban, a stronger bottle bill, and a state bank. A state bank! How huge would that have been? Still could happen — IF we elect more Democrats.

    I know Scott Roberts won’t be voting for it. He’ll be working on ways to grant personhood to fetuses. That what you want?

    Reply
  91. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 10:58 PM

    Of course we can pay for a cheaper train, but that line could better serve more people with a different mindset. Your not helping your party’s image with me, i see the same obstructionist attitude, that the repubs have, and your last post about needing an industrial strength train, indicates you may have the same goals as the port has been advocating. Wrong is wrong,Mark, and your party is carrying a heavy load of it. Again put up a candidate that at least appears to work for the average people and you might get some votes back.

    Reply
  92. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 10:44 PM

    Gene,

    You’re saying there’s no way we can pay for the cheaper train we’re getting, but it won’t be a problem to pay for a much, much more expensive one. That makes no sense.

    I don’t have a better idea to fund a maglev train. I said it would be cool to have one. It would be. But there’s no way we could ever afford it, and the benefits it provides are superfluous to our needs. We don’t need a high speed train. We need an industrial strength one. I don’t care if it only goes 20 mph so long as it gets to market.

    I don’t care if the Fair Elections NOW! Act is lip service. It’s a real bill. Let’s call their bluff. If we elect enough progressive Democrats it will pass whether it’s a bluff or not.

    http://fairelectionsnow.org/

    Social Security legislation was lying around for years, but it didn’t get passed until Democrats has a 332-103 super majority in the House and a 72-23 super majority in the Senate. With numbers like the ones we have today Soc Sec wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, just like it did during the 20’s.

    Those are numbers we can change, if we want to. And they mean something. Our system is not wrecked. We just have the wrong people in charge of too much of it. We suffer from a tyranny of the minority. We fix it by making the minority smaller. You want New Deal measure? You’re going to have to provide New Deal margins first.

    Asking “But how?” demonstrates an understanding of the difference between good policy and possible politics. Anybody can think up a better idea. Getting it done is the hard part few can achieve.

    Reply
  93. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 10:43 PM

    Mark, I have a question for you. Would you ask us to vote for Arnie Roblan, because he’s the democrat in the race, even when he has been working very hard for these corporate interest that you also appear to be against. You know there are a lot of shills floating around in Coos County. Do you support Arnie?

    Reply
  94. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 10:05 PM

    Look Mark, i will answer these questions, but your very tiring, you do what all people who are trying to protect certain interest do,(yours being the dem party)your say great idea,but how. your type always has to say but how, before you try to shoot down an idea. How are they going to pay for what their doing now, the freight charges for logs, chips, and even coal, won’t pay the tax payers back for the investment we’ve already made.
    To pay for the maglev we do what has been done in the past to pay for large scale projects, bonds, sold to investors, backed up by the government, and eventually paid back by rider fees and freight fees. If you have a better idea on how to pay for it, lets hear it, but I think your question was poised here for the purpose of knocking the idea, to protect the goals already stated by the port.
    Isn’t passing a Fair Elections NOW! Act., a little like closing the barn door after the horse got out. Isn’t that just lip service for the masses, to keep defections from getting worse?
    And isn’t someone pointing at a wrecked system, getting more response from the system quicker than a person being quite when things are falling down around them. Be glad we’re pointing this out to you, it might help you remove your blinders about your party. I know your on a mission now, so knock yourself out.

    Reply
  95. aghast!  October 31, 2011 at 9:31 PM

    Sometimes a car wreck is so bad it is better to total the vehicle and get a new one. I’m with Gene on this one, the democrats have had their chance to be worked with and now it is time to move on

    Reply
  96. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 9:24 PM

    Getting corporate influence (i.e., money) out of government is a great first step. Democrats have a plan to do it — The Fair Elections NOW! Act.

    Predictably, Republicans don’t like it. Electing more Democrats is the quickest way to pass it. Because preventing the Supreme Court from becoming even more reactionary on corporate personhood and money as speech issues is another important step in cleansing money from politics, re-electing the president is imperative.

    Maybe you have a quicker, easier, simpler way to rid our government of corporate influence. I’m all ears.

    I agree that our port and the accompanying rail line is where our economic future lies. A maglev train would be cool. It would cost upwards of $200M/mile for about 100 miles. That’s 20 billion dollars. Where are you planning to get the money?

    I completely agree that we need to cast away the old colonial economic model that has robbed Coos County of its wealth. The good old days are never coming back, which is OK with me since they weren’t all that good in the first place. We definitely need new ideas and new directions, but we’ve got to walk first before we start running. Step by step.

    It will be much easier if progressives would band together and take over the Democratic Party. It’s going to be a heavy lift.

    Reply
  97. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 8:35 PM

    Sure Mark, here’s my plan, first, get corporate influence out of government. That’s probably a deal killer for you, right out the gate.
    Next thing, I would fire all the port commissioners for betraying the public trust. With them gone I would appoint forward thinking people like Jody McCaffre to revamp the goals of the port. I would take the train away from port control, and tell the people of Oregon that this train belongs to them and will be the first Maglev train in the USA, and when its done they can buy a ticket to ride, or ship their freight. The new industries that would grow from such a massive public undertaking, would spur the economy outward in all directions , and Coos Bay could be the tip of the spear in this endeavor, because we are a deep water port, we can be the access point for the parts, that will at first have to be imported from countries that are already ahead of us in Maglev Technology.
    Is this one idea enough info for you to digest?
    When people seated in positions of power, bark down good ideas to protect dying industries, the ideas are made irrelevant, that’s why the old players have to go, they are impeding what could be, by looking where they’re told to look for ideas.

    Reply
  98. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 7:54 PM

    While I’m fishing, mind sharing your plan for making things better?

    I don’t understand how it’s so easy to take over a country, but so hard to take over a party.

    Reply
  99. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 7:26 PM

    Mark, I’m sorry you see my opinion of the dems as just a complainer, but you fail to understand that I don’t want to be a democrat. Your party is to corrupt for me to have any desire in participating in the charade. My opinion should be taken as a bellwether for your party, as I’m not the only one that feels that way. I have voted for dems in the past. that too has passed. You party groupies have your hands full fixing your image, good luck. When I see that your collective has put up a worthy candidate and changes the way it does business for corporations against the public’s interest, then maybe you can count on my vote. Until then, go fish.

    Reply
  100. MarkM  October 31, 2011 at 7:03 PM

    Gene,

    Why wait around for the local Dems to put up a candidate you will hate? Sign up and find one you will like. That’s what primaries are for.

    Beats complainin’. Especially if the alternative is voting for Republicans.

    Reply
  101. Gene Jennings  October 31, 2011 at 5:51 PM

    As expected, Arnie moves up, will he be unopposed by his party?
    Will Caddy get the bump to Arnie’s old chair, unopposed by the party?
    I don’t have a say about who the dems put up, just as I don’t have a say about the repubs candidate. Yet I predict the local party gets behind the next in line, at least as far as Arnie goes, Caddy might have a few contenders in her party for Arnie’s old seat, will be interesting to watch,Then vote against them in the main race.
    I would rather vote for a real republican, than a phony democrat.
    At least when the repubs screw everyone over, we don’t feel “as betrayed”, its sort of expected that they will do what they’re told by corporate interests, but the Roosevelt type of Dem leaders are all gone, the new democrats have sold their influence to the same corporate interests that the repubs represent.
    So lets hope the Green party has no phony candidates, cause I sure don’t want to vote for the GOP.

    Reply
  102. magix  October 30, 2011 at 4:12 PM

    @Colandrio – I agree. My meaning about independence had to do with freedom from a fixed ideology rather than party

    Reply
  103. Colandrio  October 30, 2011 at 4:06 PM

    @Magix I’m all for independent candidates, but it is far better to have an organization to support a candidate. The GP is on the ballot in almost every state at this point, ready to help retake the country for the 99%ers.

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  104. magix  October 30, 2011 at 12:25 PM

    @ Gene – Arnie practically ran out of the room when a friend and I tried to pin him down on LNG once two or three years back.

    @Colandrio – We have to find strong independent candidates, free of ideological tethers to fill all these positions, even the non-partisan slots like county commissioner.

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  105. Colandrio  October 30, 2011 at 11:59 AM

    As a long time member of the Green Party, I heartily agree with your comments about third parties. The Green Party from it’s beginning has eschewed corporate funding and is free of that taint. We ran a candidate against Joanne Verger in 2000 who gained 25% of the vote on her first try. It is time once again to get the Greens together to supply an alternative to the status quo.

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  106. Gene Jennings  October 30, 2011 at 11:16 AM

    Both offices have told me they can not make up their mind on whether to support LNG, while they both work the system to get he results (public funding, and the needed bills) the project needs to proceed. How honest is that, they will not tell the truth on this issue, and their followers just cant see the deception they are involved in. That’s why they keep getting re-elected.
    Arnie can’t make up his mind, but he can sponsor bills that allow pipeline co’s to start the paperwork for digging on your property, without your knowledge or consent.
    Joanne can’t make up her mind, but she gets the needed funds for dredging the bay to the larger size needed for LNG ships. sure they will spin it different for appearances, but the results are what count, and their results are going to benefit Jordan Cove.
    Peter D. has helped all along the process as well. Oh and he could not make his mind up either.

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  107. magix  October 30, 2011 at 11:12 AM

    There may have been a difference at one time but we there is really only one party now based upon what gets done in Congress and Salem. Whitty was a dem but she had no regard for union labor. If the local dems want to improve their numbers they will have to find and support genuinely progressive candidates

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  108. Toland  October 30, 2011 at 10:43 AM

    Sorry MGX. I don’t agree with you. Although Mr. Roblan and Ms. Verger are conservative Democrats, they are democrats. Demorats are still in the majority in this County, but barely. I can remember when we were 70% or more. The problem is that when the unionized manufacturing jobs left Coos County, many workers left also and their families and the ones that stayed became bitter and blamed the downturn on the politicans, not the manipulating Corporations who took our resources and moved on, just as ORC and others who are planning to rob us of our resources for a pittance of jobs are doing. I see you complaining about the 3 republlican Commissioners who are in the process of stealing what they can for themselves and their corporate friends. Yes, there is a difference! in the days when we had 3 Democratic Commissioners this county had people that would listen to we workers. I’m sorry so many people missed thse prosperous days.

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