Notes from the 5th General Assembly of the Occupy Oregon South Coast 8/15/2012
The meeting was held after the Peter DeFazio town hall meeting* on the benches outside the Coos Bay library. 12 people attended. Kathy was the facilitator. Janet’ took notes.
We started the meeting with the chant: “What does democracy look like? This is what democracy looks like!” Jen learned the chant from the Portland Occupy General Assembly she attended earlier this week.
Two different photographers took photos of our group. One, Jerry, said it would be in the Coast Lake News from the Reedsport/Lakeside area. The other was Lee, a free lance photographer who said he would pass the photo to Jody for the CALNG website.
We were late in starting, due to the prior meeting (and photo sessions) so agreed to not follow the usual order of general assemblies and to simply share information that was new for this meeting.
A: Mary Geddry responded to the letter we sent last week and is pleased to let us post the Occupy Oregon South Coast information on her blog site: www.MGx.com (which receives up to 3000 hits per day with about 1000 of them being from the local area). Jen, Jonathan, and Janet’ are meeting with her tomorrow in Coquille for training on how to post to the site.
B: Jen reported that the new Occupy Oregon South Coast Google Group is now up and running. She can only invite 10 people at a time, and there have been some glitches, but she is currently inviting people to join. She has been out of town for 6 days.
C: Jen reported that she attended the Portland GA on Tuesday, and there were about 30 people present. She was told they had quite a few hick ups as they began their GA format, but it is smoothly operating now.
D: Jen passed out business cards that Janet’ made for her to take and share in Portland. They list our new g mail address: OccupyOregonSouthCoast@gmail.com
E: Ora wore her T-shirt design which said: “Occupy your Heart”, graphically displayed on the front of a white shirt. The T-Shirt Express on Broadway in North Bend has the design, which can be put on your own shirt, or on their shirts. If you would prefer another design, the Adbusters website has lots of ideas. www.adbusters.org
F: Phil spoke with us and started by saying he sure would have liked our presence at the Courthouse in Coquille today. He told us that he attended the County Commissioner’s hearing at the Mill and about 6 people spoke for, and 6 against the new idea of a County Manager style of governance. At the hearing in Coquille today about 10 people spoke and all but one was against it. He asked how many e-mails they got about it, and they said 3. Even though that would be at least 15 against and only a maximum of 10 for it, they are still going to put it on the November ballot. We gave him our business card and asked him to notify us by e-mail regarding causes for our action.
G. Jonathan explained that scoping by FERC will be a presentation of the scope of the LNG Export terminal/gas liquefaction plant. After they present, the public will have a chance to comment in person at the scoping on Aug. 27 at 6:30 at SWOCC. People also have a chance to present their comments to FERC in writing. All comments become a part of the record and if those items are ignored, and not addressed by FERC, then that will be grounds for a lawsuit down the road. (Note: The governor and attorney general filed suit on the import terminal and the applicant dropped the application, so this procedure does work.)
The process for submitting comments is complex and Jody McCaffree is now organizing a special educational meeting for us and all of the public, so that we can learn how to let our voices be heard. We will be announcing the date soon, but do know that it will be from 7:00-9:00 PM on Mon. or Tuesday of next week. As soon as we know the day, Jen will work on a press release, if Jody has not done so. Jen met a man at the Portland Occupy who is a member of the Sierra Club, and is an area local, who is going to share some information with us. Lynn suggested that the area should be focusing on tourism as becoming a tourist center would be a much better business idea for this community.
H: Ora indicated she would like to be part of the sustainability working group.
The meeting ended at 7:15 PM.
Our next General Assembly is scheduled for 6:00 PM, Wednesday, August 26th, on the Coos Bay Boardwalk.
*At the DeFazio town hall, JC held an Occupy Coos Bay sign and before she made her comments she told DeFazio that his meeting was Occupied.
MarkM, I was wondering if you watched the complete film (Carbon Nation)yet? If you have I would be real interested in your current position on PeterD endorsing coal for coos bay. I know you and 15 others congratulated him for doing the right thing over at theworld comments section, although you disagreed with them about how your candidate arrived at the same conclusion as his opponent. Anyway I posted some of our old dialog below to get us up to speed on the subject. I redacted the irrelevant part about county administrators. Hope you don’t mind.
Also It would be helpful to know when or if you plan to suggest the film (Carbon Nation) to PeterD, and Jeff Merkley and Arnie, and Caddy, and SCDC. I would ask, but they never answer non-party members.
Looking forward to any update you if you care to share.
The Reminder
August 19, 2012 – 10:09 am
I think we should keep our focus on the fossil fuel issue with your group. Having the most responsibility for trying to use the Coos Bay area for this purpose, makes the democrats the party that should have to address the wisdom in pursuing that path any further.
REDACTED
Your in a unique place in our society and I would like to see you use that position to make your candidates of choice clearly own their positions. Especially when new information becomes available to that representative, we have a right as their hypothetical bosses to know if they’re capable of adapting their positions to the general public’s favor in the light of new facts they may not have been considering, even if it is uncomfortable for them and the people they have already been siding with. Is that too much to ask of an elected official or any one trying to gain public office?
REPLY
MarkM
August 19, 2012 – 10:55 am
First: You’re correct. I think our elected Democrats are doing precisely that, Sen Merkley and Rep DeFazio most notably.
REDACTED
Third: Thanks. I do endeavor to keep elected officials honest and accountable. You make a good point about adapting one’s position in light of new information. That’s very tough for anyone to do, especially when you’ve become dug in. But I’ve done it — and it’s both liberating and empowering. Facts and truth are a powerful sword and shield. I’ll do my best.
I haven’t seen it yet, but I am communicating with the film maker’s people about setting up a public screening in Coos Bay. How about that?
Very good idea. Maybe the politicians can get a private screening, where they hang out.
Thanks TR for the link to the movie trailer. It is spot on. I encourage everyone to watch it.
Hard to believe Coos County sits here in the dark ages, while the rest of the country and the World moves full speed ahead developing the jobs of the future.
Imagine the thought “…A full employment economy based on retrofitting a nation…”
Renewables such as solar power are already near “grid parity,” meaning they can compete without subsidies. By 2015, they are predicting that solar in around 50 percent of countries will reach grid parity. Let the greed take it from there and see how fast we can switch over….
Like the movie trailer states, “…You don’t have to be concerned about climate change or terrorism or anything to want to drive at 10% of the cost at what you’re driving now…”
It is really a no brainer. One day the SCDC crowd will realize, or at least everyone else will, what true fools they have been. The technology that could have been developed, marketed and manufactured right here in Coos County will end up being developed elsewhere, most likely overseas, and we will have them to thank for it NOT being developed here.
But let’s keep that ban on wind turbines in Coos Bay. That shows the World out there that we are not open for business and/or the jobs of the future. And while we’re at it, let’s ignore all those AIA SDAT recommendations too. Let’s just keep prostituting ourselves for these outdated fossil fuel dinosaur industries shall we…?
The SCDC crowd must like looking at boondoggles is all I can say. Some of the rest of us would like to move beyond that, however…
Then go ahead, Jody. What are you waiting for?
That’s the point of the film: green technologies have reached a point of profitability. You said it yourself. So, go ahead. Do it.
No MarkM, I think we should keep our focus on the fossil fuel issue with your group. Having the most responsibility for trying to use the Coos Bay area for this purpose, makes the democrats the party that should have to address the wisdom in pursuing that path any further.
In the matter of having an administrator, you have already stated that you weren’t necessarily for it yet, but you might be later on. I accept that answer and will not push you to make a hasty decision on that issue.
Your in a unique place in our society and I would like to see you use that position to make your candidates of choice clearly own their positions. Especially when new information becomes available to that representative, we have a right as their hypothetical bosses to know if they’re capable of adapting their positions to the general public’s favor in the light of new facts they may not have been considering, even if it is uncomfortable for them and the people they have already been siding with. Is that too much to ask of an elected official or any one trying to gain public office?
First: You’re correct. I think our elected Democrats are doing precisely that, Sen Merkley and Rep DeFazio most notably.
Second: Now that we have an ordinance in hand, my opinion of the proposal has developed. I support the ordinance with the caveat that I remain concerned about the power and function of a part time, volunteer board. I have no problem with the administrator position. It well-detailed and appropriate. I worry that our BOC will transition from a working board to an advisory board. That is the key thing to watch in my view. If the ordinance passes we’ll get a good glimpse of how an administrator and a full time board can work together. Maybe we will like it. Regardless, whether we have an administrator or not, the larger question is: Where are we going to get the money to run the County? An administrator will not solve that problem. A full time BOC might.
Third: Thanks. I do endeavor to keep elected officials honest and accountable. You make a good point about adapting one’s position in light of new information. That’s very tough for anyone to do, especially when you’ve become dug in. But I’ve done it — and it’s both liberating and empowering. Facts and truth are a powerful sword and shield. I’ll do my best.
MarkM, I think this is definitely an issue you could talk about on your show, but you will have to promote that show on a site like this one to give people a reason to listen. I think that’s a hot topic. This could be a great business opportunity for someone in the right place at the right time with a radio show.
Yea, such talk would be too much, too fast, for the electorate to process.
Combining issues would definitely put the system in an overload condition.
I can see why you wouldn’t want to do that.
Lets keep it simple and just ask them for one easy thing. Declare, for the voters, if your still in favor of the plan to use Oregon as a gateway, railway for the fossil fuel Industries after watching that film.
If you could limit the topic to just one issue for your democrats to handle I would be satisfied with just this one.
Then we can just let Al’s side handle all those other pesky issues.
Your side definitely has its hands full.
l
I haven’t seen the film yet, but I suspect it will not diminish my support of our port development projects. However, I expect it will give me some ideas about how to do them better. I’ll be sure to let you know.
I’m happy to discuss the county administrator issue if that’s really what you want to talk about.
Thanks JM. Here’s a link with some positive stories about Oregon.
http://climatesolutions.org/solution-stories/solution-stories/oregon/clean-energy-success-stories
http://carbonnationmovie.com/
This is great stuff, TR. Thanks for the link. I support all of those efforts. The movie is terrific too (although I’m not so sure you understand what it is saying.)
Oregon gets about 56% of its energy from coal, natural gas, oil, and nuclear. In addition to that, 38.7% of Oregon’s energy comes from hydro which many would argue is not renewable and certainly not uninvasive (fishermen, for one).
Only 5.57% of Oregon’s energy comes from renewable sources.
Are willing to sit in the dark and the cold until 2030 when the renewables are up to speed?
Check my math:
http://cms.oregon.gov/ENERGY/Pages/Oregons_Electric_Power_Mix.aspx
Your welcome, and I’m not at all surprised that you would find the mention of our current use of coal as a justification for thinking that film supports your progressive democratic group’s position to further exploit the environment, since the damage could be considered already done and may be too late to stop the consequences, you probably feel its OK to just keep on keeping on, Is that about right?
Your right someone just doesn’t understand the point of that movie at all, and he’s not alone. Please ask your upper democratic classmates to view a copy ASAP, so we can get a read on just how progressive they plan to remain after the public knows they’ve seen a copy of this film and continue to hold their current position just as you do. It could be very helpful for any one needing a bit more information before they vote for Arnie, Caddy, PeterD, and all the rest of your gang that by the way, really wants an Admin for this county.
Cool your jets, TR. I only meant that “Carbonnation” advocates solving climate change through market-based solutions. You don’t ever seem to wild about that kind of thinking.
But I see you’ve now moved on to the administrator . . . . oh well.
Eventually the greed will go where the real money ends up being and for those of us fighting these destructive abominable dead end fossil fuel projects, we all know where that leads…. (See reference articles below)
In the meantime, we have to fight the current dinosaur era development ignorance that is before us.
FERC is currently wanting specific comments as to what they should address in the Jordan Cove / Pacific Connector Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) they are preparing. Please let FERC know in upcoming scoping meetings. Whether people want or don’t want the Jordan Cove project is not what they are looking for. Find out more info at http://www.citizensagainstlng.com
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Scientific American
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030
A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables
Wind, water and solar technologies can provide 100 percent of the world’s energy, eliminating all fossil fuels. Here’s how
By Mark Z. Jacobson and Mark A. Delucchi | October 26, 2009
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The Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/25/100-percent-renewable-ene_n_813256.html/
100 Percent Renewable Energy Achievable By 2030: Study
By Joanna Zelman – Originally Posted: 01/25/11 – Updated 05/25/11
“…Could the world reach a 100 percent renewable energy goal in less than 20 years? New research says we can…”
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Bloomberg Businessweek
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-27/renewables-from-vestas-to-suntech-plan-profit-without-subsidy.html
Renewables From Vestas to Suntech Plan Profit Without Subsidy
January 27, 2012, 2:47 PM EST
By Alex Morales and Jacqueline Simmons
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And yes…. India gets it too –
http://grist.org/list/india-flips-the-switch-on-worlds-largest-solar-power-plant/
India flips the switch on world’s largest solar power plant
By Jess Zimmerman
April 20, 2012
“…The Indian state of Gujarat has built the world’s largest solar photovoltaic power plant, a field of solar panels the size of Lower Manhattan. After only 14 months of preparation, they’ve just switched it on, adding 600 megawatts of power to the grid. That’s enough to power a medium-sized city’s worth of homes. Thing is HUGE….”
(Read more, view photo, at link above)
Jody,
You’re not wrong. But India, China, Brazil, South Korea, and the rest of the developing world, as well as Germany and Japan are asking:
What do we do until 2030?
From the Grist story about India:
“The country aims to be at 15 percent renewables by 2020 — right now it’s only at 6 percent.”
That’s really great. But it also means that in eight years 85% of its energy needs will be unmet by renewables. How do you suggest they fill that gap? What can India do to prevent more blackouts?
India produces about 230 Gigawatts of power. It could consume much more than that. It’s appetite for energy consumption is growing by leaps and bounds.
The solar grid you cite produces 600 megawatts of power. This is 0.6% of the energy India needs. And it’s the biggest one in the world.
Don’t get me wrong: I think it’s great and we should definitely be doing it. But it is incorrect to say that renewables can replace fossil fuels. They simply can not do it. One day, they no doubt will. But that day is not here yet. It is decades off. So while we are waiting for that day to come — and doing everything we can to hasten its arrival — what do we do to keep the lights on in India?
Once again you proved my point about how you refuse to accept the most direct and logical answer, and then you keep on demanding an answer over and over until one is given that you think fits your agenda and at the same time you refuse to acknowledge or answer any questions that make you uncomfortable, especially if they don’t fit in with your groups agenda to bilk the residents of coos county out of the safety and security they presently have and enjoy.
What makes you think you deserve and should get that kind of special treatment? You need some mental counseling. I know better than to ask you anything else, because you will refuse to acknowledge any other opinion or questions but yours.
If you think my refusing to play any more of your little mind games somehow makes you win, then I hope it satisfies your overblown ego and feelings of self importance.
Now I plan to enjoy watching you argue and debate yourself, since no one else can abide or respect your personality and demeanor.
TR, If you want to cast me as your enemy, fine. Knock yourself out.
But I am not your enemy. And you are cheating only yourself.
I asked: Help me out, TR. What’s your plan to get India, China, and South Korea to stop burning coal?
You answered: LEAD BY EXAMPLE.
TR, that’s exactly what the developing middle class economies in India, China, and South Korea are doing. The great middle class of the USA was built on fossil fuels. They ARE following our example. Now you want to tell them to go without? Your suggestion will fall on deaf ears.
Look, the coal plant in South Korea is being built right now. It will be completed. We have no control over that. It will burn coal. We have no control over that either. It will burn either dirty coal or cleanER coal. Which one do you choose? You’re going to be breathing it either way, so choose wisely.
MarkM, your question was answered. LEAD BY EXAMPLE.
You can try to sell LNG and Coal until you turn blue. It won’t happen until or unless the GOP regains the white house, which is why you and the other so called progressives should be rooting for Romney. I’m just amazed at the effort your local Dem party is exercising to sell a GOP laden agenda. I slam your group just to make a point about who your group is really working for. Your attempt to mix the old fossil fuel ideas with the new frontiers of energy is amusing and disturbing at the same time, because of your willingness to exploit your neighbors land, lives and security for a corporate profit that will only enrich the 1% crowd. You need not try to convince me of your dedication to this area. Its more than obvious who your working for. Why do you try to goad others into answering your tilted questions? Do you think that makes you a winner? You get asked questions all the time and when you don’t like the content of those questions. you just ignore them and try to turn the direction of the conversation to one that you feel advances your cause. Do you deny that you use that tactic? Why should this country build more fossil fuel infrastructure for a declining source of energy, when even you admit there are better ways to the future? This area will do just fine without your so-called bridge. You are just trying to convince everyone that we really need those industries for our area to proper. I believe we will have a better future if we reject your agenda altogether, and at the same time I like to expose how corrupt you and your group really are.
Check this out:
Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions in the United States from January through March were the lowest of any recorded for the first quarter of the year since 1992, the federal Energy Information Administration reports. The agency attributed the decline to a combination of three factors: a mild winter, reduced demand for gasoline
and, most significantly, a drop in coal-fired electricity generation because of historically low natural gas prices.
Whether emissions will continue to drop or begin to rise again, however, remains to be seen, experts said Friday.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/a-20-year-low-in-u-s-carbon-emissions/?src=recg
Compare this development to INCREASED carbon emissions in Japan and Germany because they are replacing nuclear power plants with coal.
See how complicated it gets?
Glad you liked it, Autumn Rose.
The LNG issue has layers of complexity that makes it tricky to discuss.
In a global context, it is about a market-driven quest to satisfy a growing world’s increasing thirst for energy. These are the issues James Conca addresses so well at Forbes. We may not like where these issues lead us, but we cannot ignore their existence as we grapple with our energy future.
In a national context, energy begins to take a back seat to trade and economic development. Here, a programmatic EIS is a key tool for us to have in order to know more objectively whether or not exporting LNG is a good idea for the US. I warn anti-LNGers to be careful what they wish for on this point because I think a thorough, comprehensive, fair programmatic EIS would show that while there are some areas of concern to guard against, there are many more sound reasons in favor of exporting LNG from the US. Once we establish it is a good idea, the issue becomes — How do we do it wisely and well?
That takes us to the local level. In a local context — like here in Coos Bay — LNG is not about energy at all. It is about economic development. We do get the ancillary benefit of industrial and municipal energy redundancy production (which is really quite a bonanza for us), but primarily we get about 4 billion PRIVATE dollars to flow into our port and develop, build, repair, restore, and modernize rail, sea, road, bridge, and energy infrastructure.
We also get the use of a shipping terminal of our own. Currently the plan is to lease this terminal to an offshore wind power company which intends to build a network of offshore wind platforms up and and down the coast to produce energy from the consistent, strong winds just over the horizon. Coos Bay would become the hub for the construction and maintenance of the whole project. Decades from now, when LNG and coal have run their natural course, Coos Bay will stand as one of the world’s leading producers of wind energy.
Likewise, the Project Mainstay coal project will inject tens of millions of PRIVATE dollars into the building, modernizing, and repair of the Coos Rail Link, as well as developing it terminal port facility. The shipping partner in this project, Metro Ports, has an impeccable environmental record. It not only sets the industry standards, it exceeds them. Best of all, coal is only one thing that it ships. Metro Ports is interested in opening up Coos Bay to container shipping which will only increase across the world for generations, long after coal is found only in history books. Meanwhile, Coos Bay will be uniquely and strategically positioned to capitalize on the largest, fastest growing marketplace in the world — The Pacific Rim.
We don’t have to look like Tacoma for this to work for us. We can grow reasonably and responsibly. I would never suggest that we sacrifice the clean air, pure water, health forests, pristine beaches, and clear skies that make Coos County a wondrous place to live in order to cater to industrial demands. We don’t have to. If we are smart and work together, we can implement these projects on our terms. We can build a productive, sustainable economy here in Coos County that supports the high quality of life that we all prize.
That’s why I support the pipeline. It’s also why I support wind, solar, biomass, algae, wave, tidal, and hydro energy for Coos County. It’s why I support fishing, logging, and mining, too. It’s also why I support recreation and tourism. We need all of these things in our economy. A good mix insulates us from the whims of any one marketplace, and ensures that we have the sound, sustainable growth that every healthy economy and community needs.
We can have it all. But we have to be smart. And we have to work together.
Let me add this about the solar story.
The potential of renewable energies is extremely exciting. They do work. However, they do not yet work on the scale that we need them to work. My uncle is working on nanotechnology solar projects at Rice University in Houston. They are doing cutting edge stuff and it would blow you away. They hope to build solar collectors so small that you can mix them into paint and power your house or car with them. This is not science fiction. When these technologies, and many others like them, are perfected, our energy worries will be over.
But they are not there yet.
And the world’s population continues to grow towards ten billion. And each of those ten billion people needs and wants energy — today, not tomorrow.
We know where we want to go. We know where we will eventually be. What we don’t have figured out just yet is the path to get us there. That’s why we have to look at prudent, effective, efficient ways to utilize fossil fuels and nuclear energy. They are our bridge to our new energy future.
Along the way, we might even be able to make a buck or two right here in Coos County. To me, that’s a win-win.
Here’s an informative piece about the challenges and rewards of solar power. Let’s talk about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/magazine/the-secret-to-solar-power.html?src=recg
Good morning. Good article Mark, thanks. So, please tell me why you are supporting the LNG pipeline and not more focused on getting good information out to the public like this?
Not like your voice alone would do it, but I think all people, citizens and residents here and everywhere should be demanding better solutions and advertising the results of Sungevity’s success and encouraging others to do the same?
TR, not only did you fail to answer the question, you didn’t even engage it. When all you can do is whine, complain, and accuse while offering up no alternatives or solutions, you cannot be expected to be taken seriously. Your ideology will no sooner fix our global energy/climate change problem than the TPers’ ideology will fix the national economy.
I’m always ready to listen when you can bring something constructive to the table. I remain ever hopeful of productive dialogue.
Lead by example, even a former school teacher should be able to understand that premise. Where did you learn your set of ethics and morals Mark? Never mind answering that question, its not important. Just stick with Arnie, Caddy and PeterD. I’m sure you all have a bright future ahead, keep following their lead and I’m sure you will gain more members for your party with the examples your group is setting. You can keep cheerleading for them and I’m sure they will reward you with their support if they survive their own political futures, that’s the way your party has learned to operate. Its not easy watching greed dominate both political parties, even when the science and facts are indisputable and overwhelming and the democrats like to lay claim to being the smarter, more forward thinking party, but the pendulum must swing all the way over before we can expect to see any real change to our political landscape and you and your mentors are in a sad way helping the needed change come about. Without your examples of political stewardship we would only have the republicans to blame for the state of this county and I fear they would be unjustly accused of being the party responsible for creating the mess we see before us. When was the last time republicans were elected to represent this area? That should be proof enough of who is responsible for the condition of Coos County and we all agree its in terrible condition.
Help me out, TR. What’s your plan to get India, China, and South Korea to stop burning coal?
Its far to easy to ask others to read your positional propaganda to support your agenda. Just as it would be for me to get more data to dispel your position to support the greed and harmful effects that your position endorses. What is the most disturbing is to see you argue with yourself with statements you end with, to prop up your appearance of being against coal and LNG and for alternate energy while pushing it just as hard or harder than any GOP candidate currently running for office. Quoting your own posting that’s made to look like there is a real difference between your DEM group and Al’s GOP group, I ask others to look at what you just posted to see the fraud in your dual position.
Quote:But we must be smart about it. We can’t just let energy companies run around willy-nilly destroying the planet as we go. It is imperative that we have sound policy and strong regulations to back it up. We can do it. But not if we fight each other.
That is a contradictory statement to supporting the oil/gas/coal company goals, which you and your local elected progressives do so enthusiastically and then try to garner support from those that would find some agreement with that statement, but not your position of supporting the GOP agenda to export coal and LNG for a corporate profit at the expense of everyone else who lives here. You can’t sell it both ways and have any credibility. How is it you expect to have those results(credibility) with statements like that? Thats just as big a fraud as saying you agree we should not use those sources of energy after 2035 or 2050, after the deal is done, the profits have been harvested and the harm is irreversible. A person that tries to run both positions is the biggest fraud and scam artist of all, but I know you cant see yourself for what you are, but there are plenty of others that do.
Do yourself a favor and quit trying to walk on both sides of the fence at the same time. It is hard to watch a person destroy their own credibility with this two faced approach.
At least Al ,your GOP counterpart, doesn’t make his party look so foolish by trying to argue both sides at once.
TR, I wish you were right. You really should take some time and read what Conca is saying.
If the US decided to never burn another coal nugget, coal would still be burned at accelerated rates on Planet Earth. Global warming is a global problem. Energy is a global commodity. We need global solutions.
It is true that China is rapidly developing solar energy. They are far ahead of us. China is also building one new coal plant every month.
No country on earth has better political incentives and directives to develop solar power, and by god, they have lots of it over there. It’s on the top of everything, even pastures and corn fields. But Germany is also building coal plants as it tries to meet its energy demands sans nuclear.
Brazil has done amazing things with biofuels. It knows that ethanol from corn is a net energy loser; but ethanol from sugar cane is another story. Yet it has opened its off shore to oil drilling.
Here in the US no other state produces more wind power than Texas. Yet, it still fracks for NG with the best of them.
Other examples abound across the globe. Why is this? For all their wonderful attributes, alternative energy sources cannot produce the gross amounts of energy the world demands. And although alternatives are producing more and more all the time, the world’s appetite for energy is growing even faster.
Pres Obama is correct when he says we need to be doing everything we can with every energy source at our disposal, nationally and globally. This includes coal, and nuclear too. But we must be smart about it. We can’t just let energy companies run around willy-nilly destroying the planet as we go. It is imperative that we have sound policy and strong regulations to back it up. We can do it. But not if we fight each other.
MarkM, its really easy to do a tit for tat regarding the use of coal. I posted two examples that took one minute to glean from the internet. Your party on a national level is leaving you, Arnie, Caddy, and PeterD in the coal dust. Your local group of GOP leaning agenda “progressives” are going to be the last ones at your coal party. You should keep right on pushing this republican agenda so the locals can see who you guys really represent. Your group should just go ahead and merge with the GOP since you both sell the same garbage. I suppose if I spent another two minutes on this I could easily double your coal friendly links. Here’s a question you find a lot of people asking about your source.
Is Forbes a right-wing magazine? – Quora
MAY 25, 2012 4:00 A.M.
‘Clean Coal’ Means No Coal
Obama Two weeks ago, the Obama campaign quietly edited its website to highlight the president’s support for “clean coal.” In place of a section for “energy efficiency” with no mention of coal, BarackObama.com now boasts that the stimulus package “invested substantially in carbon capture and sequestration research.” the candidate tries to appear friendly to all energy sources.
Do we really need coal and oil
by The Electrician Posted October 13, 2008
No, oil and coal are truly not necessary.
It’s been proven in Brazil that ethanol can be the main source of energy in a motor vehicle. Wind and solar power are working in nations such as China, in Britain they have the materials for a wind farm ready. When you dig deep enough into things, you can find government restrictions on Ethanol that prevent the US from increasing Ethanol production (which would not harm crop production either).
Most alternative methods of power and energy are in their first stages, so it’s practically impossible for someone to pass them off as being inadequate when they hardly have been developed and honed. If we gave solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, electric, and other sources of power a chance to grow and develop they would easily run coal and oil companies out of business.
There was nothing at inaccurate with the World’s coverage of DeFazio’s comments about coal. Peter is dead on accurate as well with his assessment of the issue. It is not so simple. I recommend folks take at look at James Conca’s work on the geo-politics/economics of energy at Forbes.com. Start with this one.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/05/13/what-is-our-energy-future/
By 2050 we have to double the globe’s energy while curbing greenhouse emissions. This is not a simple proposition. And like it or not, coal has an important role. There is no clean coal; but there is dirty coal and cleanER coal. We cannot control whether or not coal gets burned on planet Earth. But we do have a say in what kind of coal gets burned. We can solve this complex problem but it will require “out of the box” thinking. Often that leads us to logical conclusions that are counter-intuitive. But they are right.
Let me know what you think of Conca’s work. Also, I sent an inquiry to the Occupy South Coast email address requesting someone to come on my radio show. I hope I hear back.
I’m sure Peter will demand a retraction if that is not what he said/meant.
It seems to me Peter is the chief enabler of the financing of The Port of Coos Bay.
What has been the return to We The People who are paying for the pleasure of having The Port of Coos Bay in our midst?
We need schools funded, we need jobs, we don’t need to rape the forests way beyond sustainable levels, and we don’t need to enable dirty coal being shipped to Asia. Think about it.
Give your precious vote to people who will stop this madness, not their enablers.
Yes, thank you to all of you.
Your Welcome! We are hoping some more folks will start coming and can pick up some of the work. We have clipboards and great notes for facilitating the General Assembly. Come and see us next Wednesday!
Thank you to every single one of you. It’s obvious to me we don’t have a national choice in voting any longer. When the Democrats push for dirty coal exports, seizing of public lands for private foreign corporations, you no longer have a party which I can support. I thought I would continue voting for Peter, not now. No more votes against every citizens’ rights to clean air and water. Period. We have to start somewhere, this is where I start voting for candidates who don’t play games with clean air and water to pick up a few votes.
Hi themguys! If you are referring to The World’s article about Defazio, they were dead wrong in most of what they said. It was vastly different than what I heard him say at the library. He said that coal wasn’t going away, The World spun quite a story, and left out a lot of the great public comments.