A member of the governance advisory committee and proponent of the county hiring an administrator has lashed out in a letter to The World newspaper today. Lance Benton targets Robert Loiselle for his earlier letter questioning the conclusions of the PSU report and accuses Loiselle of being a “shill” for Commissioner Bob Main. Benton also cites the structure and governance advisory committees’ conclusions while failing to mention he was a member of the latter.
Interestingly, Coos Bay Mayor Crystal Shoji questions a state study predicting a decrease in local population, (a phenomenon noted in The JOB Messiahs), because the methodology used to reach the conclusions are not, in her opinion, clear. Neither advisory committee explained its methodology and for this reason amongst many others both final reports are highly suspect in part because too many unexplained assumptions are used as validation for the results.
Benton’s own letter demonstrates a wild unproven assumption combined with flawed reasoning demonstrated in an earlier letter by another advisory committee member, Jon Barton. Benton writes that “nearly 60% of the voters last election voted for change in county government” which mimics Barton’s earlier claim of “17,000 of 29,000 voters voted for a change”. Both are making a mistake by summing the total “yes” votes for a county charter, Measure 6-143 and an administrator, Measure 6-144 and assuming votes equal individuals.
Measure 6-143 received 6,356 “Yes” votes while Measure 6-144 received 10,663 for a total of 17,019 votes. Dividing the total votes cast in the election 28,485 into the sum of yes votes in both measures does indeed approach 60% but there is no validation that some voters didn’t vote yes in both measures. Using their reasoning one might just as well state that 118% of the county voted “No.” Benton and Barton ignore other factors like the significant under votes in both races or that 6-143 lost by 74.32% and 6-144 by 58.16%. Averaging the two races against the total votes cast in the November election reflects only a third of the county, 33.76% voted for a change in governance.
Benton and Barton’s reasoning is flawed and illogical and based upon faulty assumptions even in this matter. Why then should anyone take them seriously on more serious issues? As for anyone being a shill, no one fits the dictionary definition, “Slang a confidence trickster’s assistant, esp a person who poses as an ordinary customer, gambler, etc., in order to entice others to participate”, better than the mathematically challenged Lance Benton.
Good lord, Reminder – get away from your PC!!! It’s bombarding you with carcinogenics! In the interest of personal safety (yours) I recommend you stop using it altogether.
I think my sense of humor using an old cartoon figure who entered and left at an opportune moment, may be a little much, if there is a person who fit that description and they should feel offended, then I apologize for my crude sense of humor. Other than my crude narrative, it seems to pretty much fit the local history of late.
Al’s line of communication seems very limited within the group. He gets his talking points and directional moves from those barely one pay-grade above his station in the organization, but the other one (I like to call snagglepuss) gets his advisory info from a higher level of the group. His access goes up the food chain to former senator Verger, current senator Roblan, and the newly elected congresswoman formally of the port, Ms.Caddy. Those are the levels he’s representing. If there’s any doubt about the goals of those representatives supporting the SCDC agenda then you haven’t been paying close enough attention to this power grab agenda we’re watching play out.
It was dangerous. Was it more dangerous than siting a LNG facilty on the edge of North Bend? Which your gang also wants to do. Was it more dangerous than shipping coal through the state of Oregon to increase the planet’s carbon footprint? Which your group also wants to do.
This is the same as saying “enter stage left”. Get ready for snagglepuss.
Some of you will know who I’m referring to. He can’t help himself from entering the discussion when these subjects are breached.
And Reminder: Solid Waste was closed for one reason and one reason only: it was dangerous. Setting aside the fact that it was losing money, it was dangerous to both customers and employees. There’s this little thing called liability that all business people have to be concerned about. I’m guessing that expert evaluation of the facility was the final nail in the coffin.
That’s just about what you were saying when you defending that position as it was happening. Then there were those that were advising those SCDC boys to slow down a bit and let there be more investigations and opinions into how dire the situation might be before it was dismantled. That did not happen. The only ones satisfied about the need to dismantle it so fast were the ones wanting it closed ASAP.
It can’t be undone and we have to live with that result, but its a good representation on how your boys handle things around here and what we could see more of if SCDC is allowed to continue to dominate the county’s government.
The expert who recommended the closure was sought out by who? This was one of those backroom deals that was designed to appease a certain member of the club with the cover provided by two temporarily appointed commissioners that overstepped the bounds of good governing. It was barely legal and those results have been held against your gang as was demonstrated by the loss of Fred’s job.
Its also very obvious that you guys are pretty certain that these new commissioners won’t impede the groups progress towards changing the county structure to one more compatible to making these kinds of deals. Your naturally going to present the same events from the angle of saving the county money by avoiding liabilities about the safety of the workers involved at the facility. Wouldn’t a timeline investigation by the DA on behalf of the voters be interesting. I think you guys had that probability covered as well. Nice Job on conning the Coos County voters.
I assume you honed your math, economic and management skills with your windmill company? Or was is your soap company? Or construction company?
You have a role in this community: others do the work and you criticize them for their efforts. It’s not much of a role – not very noble and certainly appreciated by only a handful — but it is a role. What would any community be without a self-aggrandizing curmudgeon?
I’ll give you this: you’re certainly good at the career you’ve chosen.
Grammar school
All Al is trying to do is deflect attention away from the fact that Al and pals can’t do grammar school level math OR that they dishonestly manipulate data in order to deliberately mislead the public. They are either stupid or crooked, take your pick. Either way I wouldn’t buy a used motorcycle from any of them
With sincere apologies to Susan for incorrectly attributing Reminder’s whacky accusations to her.
Yea Al you have a part in the closure, a small one,but you were there thumping the drum for closing it. It won’t take any reader very long to look back on this site and see how you were shilling for Fred and Cam to close it. I don’t think you received any monitory award for your loyalty to Jon and his close buddies that put the knife in those employees backs, but you were definitely there cheering those SCDC boys on concerning the closure that benefited Waste Connections, another SCDC member. Have you paid your dues or is your membership gratis for being their shill?
“…with my eyes closed, just imagine what…” I imagine you don’t know how poignant that statement is. It is exactly what has been sold over and over in this county to the tune of millions of dollars wasted. It is exactly what has been used to label citizens as negative and radicals. It is exactly why Mayor Shoji cannot accept the state population study. Can you grasp any of this?
Susan – you’re blaming ME for Solid Waste? Talk about shooting the messenger! That is RICH!! 🙂
You read incorrectly what The Reminder wrote.
You would think that his handler’s would tell him ENOUGH. He’s making the whole group look worse every time he pecks at his keyboard. His grudge against Mary has now included SusanP. There was a time not to long ago that he swore off this site because he felt so frustrated by all the comments running his name. What happened? Did Jon tell you to go back in there? He thinks he is helping their cause, but he is getting the opposite results. Maybe they told him to get back in there and try to frustrate those non-believers. This is really special and quite entertaining.
I don’t think you could chase him off with anything. He’s just baiting and hoping Mary will slip up and give him some arrows to use against her. His gang really hates this site and they want it shut down. That’s the only plausible reason for him to come back after quitting so many times.
Al just doesn’t get it. We have hired three administrators that we call commissioners.
His group just wants another layer added to our county government. Why?
There are a lot of reasons and they all start with $$$.
If he wants to claim that closing our waste facilities saved the tax payers half a million, then he’s not even smart enough to be a dog catcher. Acquiring tax dollars for his private business didn’t save us any money either. His group did redirect a lot of tax dollars but that’s not the same as saving tax dollars.
They should all keep their mouths shut. Benton’ and Barton’s averaging gaff ought to embarrass them til the day they die, any third grader would know better. Then again I can’t figure out if they are really that dumb or just think the rest of us are stupid. More likely it is both… at any rate, I eagerly await their very next bit of puffery. $500K anyone???
Benton is an embarrassment to the Coast Guard but this wouldn’t be the first time
Susan – if I could save the County $500k in the first year with my eyes closed, just imagine what a trained Administrator could do.
The operative word being “IF”
That is rich! Al and his buddies don’t even understand elementary averaging and simple math and we are supposed to believe he even knows what $500K means.
Dear Al, if you had the credentials, the skills, the verifiable track record that enables you to “save the county $500K in the first year” with your eyes closed, you would not be peddling motorcycles in the boonies of Oregon. You would be in demand by the global company that laid you off almost 30 years ago or by a dozen other companies who desperately need a person like you. If you are everything that you claim to be, you would be working with your friend Walworth who has been less than successful publishing a half weekly paper describing for the citizens how that $500K could be saved. Please Al, close your eyes and share with the people of planet earth how YOU would save that $500K if you were in command. Thank you.
There is plenty of evidence that Benton wants the admin job if it is created. There are links at this site that shows the whole gang in their meetings.Lance seemed to be trying to get the rest of them to recognize that he was qualified for that new position if they could just make it happen. Interesting to note that Bill Grille who took command of the meetings that he was a part of, just kept ignoring Lance every time he tried to point that out that he was the one who could do the job. Most likely Grille saw himself in that seat as well. There is no telling how many of them thought they would get the job if it appears. Al probably wants that job as bad as any of them. Jon Barton has probably secretly promised it to more than one of them for their support. They see their own conceived qualifications as the path to glory, but Jon and Fred have a surprise waiting for all of them. They plan on putting in someone like Jeffry Bishop, who can be quickly disposed of when necessary.
Interestintg comments. It is sad to note that former Coast Guard Captain Benton is so disappointed in his neighbors, the voters of the county, who took time to get educated in the matter and who did not agree with him and he must toss a gernade into the wood pile with his letter to the editor name calling and attempt to insult Loiselle and Jim Bice. Is it possible that he was one of the people promised the county manager job by Messy and others? Coos is not the only county in Oregon or the US without a county administrator. Al appears to be the only supporter of the local county manager concept with the courage to often face the contributors to this web site so I ask him; Yo Al, how do other counties survive? And please dont cite Curry County. And Al, how will you be paying for this county manager. Your friends have acknowledged that the annual expense will be at least $200,000, a figure considered much too low by those of us who have worked in executive positions in global corporations. Your pal Cribbins was silent during the election; will she work for $1,000/month to partially offset the cost?
Hey guys, cut Al some slack.
I bet Al pays someone in his organization a 100K a year to authorize the purchase of toilet paper. You see, when people are incapable of wiping their own ass they assume everyone else is the same…
I try to encourage an end to the delusion of our local history as a manufacturing one to a more accurate description. This area was never a manufacturing area, it would best to recognize that it has been a farming industry. Unfortunately our best crop was harvested many years ago. It takes a century to grow that kind of crop again and automation could consume it in a small fraction of that time. Again. Get the term “manufacturing” out of your language used to describe this area. Once facts are accepted then perhaps rational thought will begin. Perhaps we can stop making delusional comparison to regions that truly are manufacturing ones.
As an aside, here are a couple of interesting (to me) side dishes of food for thought.
Are robots hurting job growth?
60 Minutes
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50138922n
Rise of the Robots
The New York Times
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/rise-of-the-robots/
Al also just tried to lay the blame on Bob Main for the recent solid waste changes and any potential problems with the IT dept. He does share some of the blame because he opened the door for Cam and Fred to make that move. They shut down the plant so fast and handed those county dollars to waste connections, an SCDC member, in the blink of the eye. When Bob went silent on this subject he included himself in their conspiracy.
Bob was only elected because the voters saw him as the lesser of two evils. He now has many more sets of eyes on himself because he allowed SCDC to gain control of this county. He has a big job ahead trying to restore the voters confidence in himself. He found out the hard way that they (SCDC) weren’t the friends he was hoping for when he appointed two of their shills.
SCDC has group tenacity, but they are still the minority in this county and they need to be shut down if its not too late. They now have in place two or maybe even three shills if these new commissioners should choose to do their bidding.
Al is right, we have three administrators. They were ELECTED to do the job. This system has worked until this group of profiteers decided they could impose their will on this county and its resources, which they could do easier if they had one go-to guy. The three admin system is what we have and what most voters want to keep. We can elect a new “admin” if he or she doesn’t perform the job they were elected to do. If Al,Jon,Lance,Fred, and all the other members of this county’s “our gang” can con this county into this new style of county governance, then they can loot the resources at their leisure. Our current system having three people at the helm means if one of them fails for any reason the other two can step up and fill the void. They all get to rotate on a regular time frame so that they all can be trained to handle the problem of any department if and when it occurs. This group of shucksters are still planning on putting one person in there for their own personal reasons. Some of them want that job, others are planning to use the person in that position for opportunities to profit. This county is just a big pinata for them to bust open and gather the spoils of resources and contracts. This gang is populated by a lot of recent newcomers to the area that are holding hands with the old guard that has reaped their share of tax dollars over the years. If or when they get this change they will be laughing all the way to the bank. We can bank on that.
Speaking of shills….
The problem is not with which type of government you like . The problem is the continued declines in revenue. The bandaging that we do fix things . When we bandage we only prolong the problem we spend more money in the long run then if we would have fixed it right the first time.each form of government has its merits.Al I respect your opinion . But the voters of Coos County have spoke now it time to put this issue to rest. Let learn to work together as a community and do what is best for Coos County. The county has to stop selling resources for pennies on the dollars. Too grow our counties economy we need to get manufacturing jobs to come here. Until we start build products our economy will not grow. So lets put our efforts to atrack manufacters to locate and build their products in Coos county Oregon.
That will definitely do more to help the county than centralizing control
Mary, perhaps it is you who doesn’t get it. This is understandable: you’ve never worked for a big organization and have never managed a large organization – or a small organization. Setting aside the fact that you have flip-flopped on the Administrator issue, your fears and arguements against having someone in charge are unfounded. Clark Walworth made a recent observation that is spot-on: we currently have not one but three (3) Administrators. The very thing you’re fighting exists in triplicate. Which leads one to wonder why Commissioner Main is so adamant that he keep his fifedom insulated and protected from inquisitive eyes. Perhaps there’s another Solid Waste or IT Department in the woodpile….?
Al has an Ax to grind with Main.
Makes one wonder what Main did to piss on your parade, Al?
Does it have to do with ORC? Or does it go back even farther to
his days as an assessor? Being vindictive is such a waste of energy…
Considering Al hangs his hat with people who can’t even do elementary math and averaging, maybe his animosity is rooted in some schoolyard rivalry
Yes, using the advisory committees’ reasoning, 117% of Coos County voters said no changes to local governance
Using their reasoning 33,221 of 28,485 voters rejected a governance change. That’s 117% of the voters