An Association of Oregon Counties representative provided a handout and gave a discussion intended to inform elected and appointed officials, county staff and advisory committee members on Oregon public meeting laws. Ironically this public meeting law “training session” may have violated these very statutes. PEG Broadcasting, the organization that provides the wonderful service of video recording and archiving our public meetings was denied access to a training session, Tuesday, on open meetings law.
As described in an email to Commissioner Bob Main, the PEG cameraman was told to pack up his camera kit and leave even though Messerle had previously promoted the session in other public meetings and gave no indication the public was not welcome. Main and Messerle both attended the session thereby forming a quorum and a quick review of the relevant Oregon statutes does not include “training sessions” as being exempt from the public or qualifying for an executive session.
It would appear this commission and possibly some of the advisory committee members have once again engaged in an illegal executive session. Further, Main’s response to PEG was copied to both of the other commissioners, another quorum formed via email.
From: Bob Main [mailto:bmain@co.coos.or.us]
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:12 PM
To: Channel 14
Cc: Cam Parry; Fred Messerle; Oubonh White; Bobbi Brooks
Subject: RE: Public Meeting Law workshop—
The training session was not a public meeting. The training was conducted by an AOC attorney that was for elected, managers and appointed persons that serve on Coos County boards/commissions/committees. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Bob
What we have here is a failure to communicate the full meaning and intent of the law to our sitting commission.
Occam’s Razor huh?
Seeing that pop up a lot recently on another local forum, hum.
Not a part of anything my old arse.
As I understand it, Dee Lynn, once a complaint is filed with OGEC the subject of the complaint is notified
Randy, I’ve also read the AG’s guide but thank you for excerpting it here since it supports my opinion that (in your words) “discussion of public meeting law for the purpose of understanding when and how it applies” does not constitute official business since no business was discussed for which a quorum was necessary. Perhaps if the author of this opinion piece had also read the guide prior to hitting the publish button, we might have been spared the kneejerk high dudgeon. But, thanks for back-pedaling a bit, especially since your first post stated that it was a public meeting because Messerle sent out invitations (which is covered nowhere in the statutes). Now, pointing out that you’ve covered your butt by calling it a “potential violation” just means that you’ve constructed an entire argument based on something you’re not sure happened.
Next, has anyone bothered to ask Bob Main why he asked the cameraman to stop filming? Did the cameraman seek permission to film the training before showing up? After all, the county had contracted with AOC to present the training, so the content was AOC’s intellectual property even though it was based on Oregon law. There are a number of unanswered questions – while you all seem to be enjoying the breathless speculation, Occam’s Razor may apply here.
Finally, I will be very interested in who will be filing the two ethics violations threatened in MG’s post since I believe it to be a waste of county time and resources. And no, I’m not a county employee, I do not serve on any committees, and I have no ties to the Chamber of Commerce or any other Coos County organizations. I’m a private citizen . . . part of the “we the people” that them guys often refers to but does not speak for.
Wouldn’t it be lovely if this Counties business could just be done in the open? All the time? How much more could these jokers actually get done, if they just stopped contorting themselves into knots to try to AVOID conducting the counties business in the open?
Imagine that? Closing a meeting, to all but the attendees, put on to “teach” our leaders how to do business in an open manner?????
Imagine that Dee Dee.
Dee Lynn is running a lot of defense here for the county and looks to know enough about what was said at the meeting to have been in attendance. What needs to be emphasized here is that this commission is a repeat offender. OGEC can assess fines and will likely consider the continued disregard for the public
I have reason to understand that two separate complaints to OGEC are planned regarding this event.
Dee Lynn,
Had you carefully read my comment you would have noted that I referred to this incident as a “potential violation” and while I believe the information I am providing below supports my assertion I want you to know that I appreciate the opportunity for us to disagree because it is through this OPEN process that real answers are found.
The following are excerpts from the reference to Oregons public meeting law published by Open Oregon and the Oregon Attorney Generals Office:
The Spirit of Oregon’s Public Meetings Law:
Understanding the letter of the Public Meetings Law is critical. Equally important is understanding and committing to the spirit of that law. Public bodies should approach the law with openness in mind. Open meetings help citizens understand decisions and build trust in government. It is better to comply with the spirit of the law and keep deliberations open.
“Government accountability depends
on an open and accessible process.”
•
Hardy Myers
Oregon Attorney General
“Public bodies must conduct business
in public – it’s really that simple.”
•
Bill Bradbury
Oregon Secretary of State
Honorary Co-Chair, Open Oregon
“Oregon needs to protect its tradition
of openness.”
•
Dave Frohnmayer
President, University of Oregon
Honorary Co-Chair, Open Oregon
What is a Public Meeting?
A public meeting is the convening of any governing body for which a quorum is required to make or deliberate toward a decision on any matter, “or to gather information”. Decisions must be made in public, and secret ballots are prohibited. Quorum requirements may vary among governing bodies.
So my questions to you are; does the discussion of public meeting law for the purpose of understanding when and how it applies constitute official business? And if no official business was conducted what it would have hurt to allow them to film?
Since most county business is conducted at times that a majority of the public cannot participate public access television is a way to help them feel connected.
As for your challenge to file a complaint with OGEC I have in the past and reserve the right to do so in the future. As a Coos County resident I feel it is imperative for me to be informed and I want to ensure that all Coos County residents have the same opportunity.
Randy, you are wrong. This training session was not subject to the Public Meetings Law since ORS 192.610(5) clearly states that ‘”Meeting” means the convening of a governing body of a public body for which a quorum is required in order to make a decision or to deliberate toward a decision on any matter.’ While two of the three commissioners were present at this training session, no quorum was needed since the purpose was training and not deliberation of official business. If Main and Messerle had indeed held such a discussion during the meeting, then a violation would have occurred. They didn’t. However, since you claim on your campaign website to “understand the meaning of Oregon’s open meeting law”, perhaps you would like to test your understanding by filing a complaint with the Oregon Government Ethics Commission?
I’m not a fan of Main, but based on your snarky comment, I will hope for someone with both courtesy and common sense to also file for this position during the next election.
And, to Aghast and themguys . . . you may return now to your mutual admiration society. 😉
New meaning for “Box of rocks” dumb.
Main just showed his stoolies/Chamber of Consorts/SCDC buddies HOW to AVOID openness in gubernut.
Good analogy, Gene. A source tells me he plans another run and to spend even more money on his campaign than last time ($21K). Main has miraculously managed to not only offend the very people who helped elect him but also irritate the chamber folks. He has some boulders in that sack
I doubt they learned any state secrets, or anything else to give themselves an advantage come election time,from this training. To exclude the public, that can, it appears, obtain the same info for FREE, has just added a rock to his sack in public view, and was an unnecessary act on his part. Carry it well Bob.
Having spoken with someone who attended the “training session” the AOC representative basically just read from a handout of publicly available information. As to kicking out PEG, well in my humble opinion, that was ordered by Main alone. Main has a reputation for vindictiveness and he has decided that PEG is his enemy because the people who volunteer to operate the camera have the audacity to speak out at the meetings. Main is misdirecting his anger at the volunteers to the organization.
Bob and friends want this information to prevent future lawsuits, what fools to think they should be the only ones with that information, when the fees are paid to the presenter, then that select group should have to pay for their training out of their own pocket.
How does it benefit the public to have their “reps” educated on procedure, and not know how those rules apply to those reps? The power of knowing the procedural process for public meetings will be more powerful if they are the only one’s with that info, they will be able to put down dissenters at their meetings with authority because only they will know the rules. Sounds like another way to stack the deck against the public.
they just keep digging the hole deeper for themselves.
Dee Lynn, please read the post thoroughly before commenting. It will save everyone and yourself a lot of time
“Do you have any evidence that the commissioners present discussed official county business?
. . . crickets chirping . . .”
Oh my gawd, how dense is THAT forest? And how embarrassing for you Dee. But thank gawd you don’t have to realize it. gawd does indeed work in mysterious ways………………….
Welcome.
Its no secret that us working stiffs cannot just take time off work and attend meetings or workshops, so to exclude the media is the same as public exclusion, period.
There’s two types of labor out there folks, blue collar bodies must rest between labors, and the extra effort required to attend such events doesn’t even come close to being on their agenda, but if these same workers could view video of what they’re missing they might become to well informed, for some in government to handle.
This is one of the few places where the public can view such video of what we are forced to miss.
“you have the right to remain silent. If you give up that right, you are engaging in class warfare.” .
Dee Lynn,
If the applicable ORS statute that you refer to is ORS 192.630(4), the only Open Meeting Law statute that even refers to training sessions, it only offers relief from the requirement to hold all such sessions within the geographic boundaries in which the attendees reside, for reasons that even you could probably understand.
As for your request for evidence that the public was excluded from the meeting you seem to have missed the point. As was stated, Mr. Messerle extended invitations to citizens to attend, which by definition would make this a public meeting. The ONLY entity that seems to have been excluded was the media!! And once again the exclusion of the media seems to have been authorized by Commissioner Main and enforced by his executive assistant, both of whom were involved in the “technical difficulty” that required a public apology by Mr. Main prior to appointing Mr. Messerle to replace Commissioner Whitty. And the real irony here is that this potential violation occurred at a training session designed to instruct our county officials on how to get it right.
“What we have here is a failure to communicate the full meaning and intent of the law to our sitting commission.”
Not quite. What we have here is another case of jumping to an unfounded conclusion. In checking the applicable ORS statute covering Oregon public meeting laws, there is a clear distinction between meetings that must be publicized in advance, open to the public, etc., and other events (such as a training session) that do not meet the criteria.
If Main and Messerle both attended, then yes there was a quorum present. However, unless they discussed, deliberated over, or reached a decision on official county business. then simply being in the same room does not constitute a public meeting. Do you have any evidence at all that the public was excluded or barred from attending? Do you have any evidence that the commissioners present discussed official county business?
. . . crickets chirping . . .
Didn’t think so.
themguys, ran you nickname suggestions past a few people and “Bonaparte Bob” is the all time favorite
I don’t think Bob/Barney is quick enough to ‘nip it’, perhaps we’ll be subjected to Death By Docile Mastication. That’s about as quick as the fellow is.
Is this what Fred meant when he said he was ready “to hit the ground running?”
Themguys, so how’s Bob gonna NIP-IT?
good one, sometimes its good to insert laughter at the heads I win, tails you lose attitude of government.
Yes, Pirate, you about summed it up.
Let me see if I understand this.
We have a meeting of two or more Commissioners making this a quorum and a public meeting. This topic of this public meeting is when to open County meetings to the public. Then the public is denied entrance. Did I get that right?
Perhaps the meeting content was designed to train “how to exclude” the public rather than “how to include” the public. We will never know, since the public was denied attendance.
This polite little open to the public meeting law must be clearly worded to be ineffectual.
Might be that the only drawback to violating this open meetings law is that the Commissioners don’t get any cookies at recess.
WHERE’S SHERIFF ANDY WHEN WE NEED HIM?
Barney/Bob has run amok——again.
http://youtu.be/ZLsg0EvZozI
So Bob Main and his appointed committes refuse to allow their meetings to be filmed?
They’ve taken complete control of this county government. No outsiders allowed.
Got your bushel of corn for the King?
What?
Seriously?